New To 205 And Mechanic(Ing) - Resto Advice

[jackherer 543]

Seems I'm causing trouble already. Sorry chaps.

 

You've just caused an interesting debate, nothing to apologise for

[GilesW 41]

Once I know the car is reliable and healthy, I would like to track it.

 

 

Ah - now you're moving the goal posts.

 

What is suggested for a road car will not necessarily be the same as suggested for a track car.

 

In a highly stressed track environment which could have cost you £200+ for the pleasure of, then I would personally go for silicon hoses as:

A) They are new and so *remove* concerns about age related failures.

The impact of the failure is far greater then happening on a road car (loss of the cost of the day, likely to have been miles from home, the fag of recovering it, the joy experienced by the other tack days with your potentially slippery water, damage resulting from possible instant coolant loss on a very hot engine/car) etc etc

[welshpug 1,622]

I disagree, a road car in fine fettle will cope just fine on the track.

 

Once you improve certain aspects of its performace then you will need to chase weak points, but as a standars package theyre great.

[PAGOS 15 4 Cars]

Interesting indeed . In my opinion and from past experiences ,it can be a bit of a pain in the arse running round trying to source suitable replacement parts which aren't specific to that particular model / type . Certainly improvisation and adaptability are as much an important asset as any stacked tool cabinet or the best equipped workshop .[i am a mobile plant machinery maintenance engineer ,on sites and a Land Rover as a w/shop ] .At the end of the day ,only you can decide on what you want to spend your cash on the most . However I must add that the Baker oil filler tower hose was money well invested . The original is no longer produced.No need to cut & join or adapt & improvise . Off with the old and on with the new .Job done ! As Alan has said the plumbing on a 205 is important # no flow - no go # And before any body bombards me with ' reason to be cheerful - part 3 ' , Damir is correct , the car has to be thought of as a multi component machine where all parts must be considered .There is no point in having the brake horse if you cant get the horse to break . Must go now and look in some barns for some hay or an abandoned 205 classic .

[DamirGTI 325]

I'm not against anyone's choice of investment in the car parts being upgrade or repair/replacement , by all means do what you want with you're money .. but paying £400 for an set of hoses is a bit insane to me ! but that's me .

 

I also don't say you should modify or push your car to the limit with retaining 20/25-ish old coolant pipework - no way , especially if going turbocharger route which adds much more heat related stress onto the cooling system .. One of the first things which i've done to my first bought 205 included replacement of all the coolant hoses - all of them .. along with the timing belt , tensioner , water pump etc. i wanted to do the hoses as well cos it's my daily drive and i do a lot of miles and long motorway journeys thus didn't want to risk with any of old ones although they where fine and could well do a few more years .. that was 11years ago and i haven't had any coolant hose rupture nor leak yet they're still good so i really don't understand that myth rubber vs silicone ?! not to mention the price difference .

 

Tyres brakes and suspension components are for me the most important factor on the car , and this is my main concern for investment .. i'd rather have an really good quality set of tyres and if even needed to replace them coolant hoses i'd buy an rubber ones .. better to "temporarily" end my journey because of the leaky coolant hose than maybe end it completely in the ditch because of the crappy tyres or duff brakes/suspension components !

 

Rubber is fine and durable enough , silicone is mostly just posh material !

 

D

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

 

If total piece of mind and performance reliability mean an initial outlay of £400 for all of them, so what?...

They are basically fit and forget, and getting all your plumbing right on 205's is important.

Tyres are consumables anyway, and there's only £100 difference between 4 cheapy chongers or 4 premium...

You pay your money, you take your choice...

 

That said, a set of cut-to-measure hoses from a hydraulics firm will set you back like £40 and will be fit and forget for the next 20 years. There's also nothing to say that silicone hoses won't break down after 20/30 years as they haven't been around for that long. Silicone does have weaknesses...not so much as regular hoses but still.

 

If £400 for materials that cost about £60 supplied is piece of mind then fair enough.

[Alan77 78 1 Cars]

Simon, material cost price alone is no way to assess somethings worth. What about other business costs and processes like machinery, moulding, employees time, insurances, transportation, VAT, profit?...

 

I doubt many of us here have gone down the DIY route of cutting a length off a roll at a hydraulics firm.

 

The popularity of BBM hose sets speaks for themselves, either bought as a whole kit or the odd few to replace NFP peugeot hoses.

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

Simon, material cost price alone is no way to assess somethings worth. What about other business costs and processes like machinery, moulding, employees time, insurances, transportation, VAT, profit?...

 

I doubt many of us here have gone down the DIY route of cutting a length off a roll at a hydraulics firm.

 

The popularity of BBM hose sets speaks for themselves, either bought as a whole kit or the odd few to replace NFP peugeot hoses.

 

 

I know what you're saying. I was hoping you weren't going to suggest that the additional cost is due to R&D for the silicone hoses though. And to be honest, I was comparing to just a normal hose, which includes the same costs that you stated. Actually, they cost more considering the things they do with regular hoses, such as wrapping, setting a steel gauge in etc.

 

As for popularity of BBM, and I'm not criticising the business (they can sell what they like at a price they like), people will pay over the odds for something based on the fact alone that others are doing it. Then there's those that will hand money over because you get what you pay for and it must obviously be worth the money but also because the word 'performance' is used.

 

I'm also not criticising others that wish to buy silicone hoses. I'm sure people like the look of bright blue coolant hoses mingled around in their engine bay. I personally would rather stick to regular hoses.

[welshpug 1,622]

they're cheaper than samco, come in red and black as well as blue

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

they're cheaper than samco, come in red and black as well as blue

 

Hahaha...I know someone was going to point out the colour options!

[jackherer 543]

As for popularity of BBM

BakerBm is popular on here because the company was started by one of our members!

[PAGOS 15 4 Cars]

Forget about material costs , a tree grows for free . Ask a carpenter for a, price to make a table ! Hydraulics firms supply hosing designed primarily for the transfer of liquids , therefore not suitable to be used as an engine vapour hose . Engine vapour is highly corrosive with regards to certain types of rubber , pvc ,nylon & plastic .My previous 205 [1.9] had a home made cost cutting hose job fitted when I bought it .A total disaster , not fit for purpose , a joke ! It is not advisable to use a general purpose hose on your engines oil/vapour plumbing ,. BBM provide a much needed service for those of us who want to maintain or improve upon the engines performance and reliability, supplying a dependable , well manufactured piece of kit . fix and forget .

[MikeC 10]

Think your right Eric. The main reason i plumbed for the BBM hoses was i was sick to the h*le of going to peugeot dealers parts desks not wanting to bother their h*le to help me ("reg number? No the car was from the uk. can't help"). That was until i found servicebox and these forums, which were a great help. Knowledge is power and going there now i have the right number and can tell em it's not NFP after the usual deep breath that follows when they ask what type of car

Edited May 1, 2014 by MikeC

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

Forget about material costs , a tree grows for free . Ask a carpenter for a, price to make a table ! Hydraulics firms supply hosing designed primarily for the transfer of liquids , therefore not suitable to be used as an engine vapour hose . Engine vapour is highly corrosive with regards to certain types of rubber , pvc ,nylon & plastic .My previous 205 [1.9] had a home made cost cutting hose job fitted when I bought it .A total disaster , not fit for purpose , a joke ! It is not advisable to use a general purpose hose on your engines oil/vapour plumbing ,. BBM provide a much needed service for those of us who want to maintain or improve upon the engines performance and reliability, supplying a dependable , well manufactured piece of kit . fix and forget .

 

It really depends on the type of hose you get. It being from a hydraulics firm doesn't necessarily mean it's only fit for transferring fluids. Practically all of them will be able to supply hoses which withstand much more extreme temperatures than a car will give off and hoses which do not perish from oil vapours. For example, Hydroscand supply various hoses which they state are fit for oil breather purpose.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

What an absolute joke, suggesting straight hose off a reel is an equivalent to hoses with formed bends, tees, steps in diameter!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Economy of scale comes in to this too. BBM may be popular on our scene, but comparatively they are a small fish in a big sea. Maybe if they were selling 500,000 kits a year they could reduce the price.

 

And as said, Stew Baker is/was a forum member and it's nice to support each other. That's one reason why my hoses were sourced through both BBM and Miles.

 

Don't recall paying 400 quid though! I'd struggle to justify that price to myself now!

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

What an absolute joke, suggesting straight hose off a reel is an equivalent to hoses with formed bends, tees, steps in diameter!

 

Not exactly what I said, though, is it?! At no point did I refer to bends, tees or steps...which a hydraulics firm should be able to add without any trouble at all.

[jackherer 543]

Don't recall paying 400 quid though! I'd struggle to justify that price to myself now!

 

I couldn't work out where that price came from but if you add up the price of the full set of coolant hoses (£167), the breather hoses (£105), the oil filler hose (£35) and the SAD hoses (£35) you reach £342 and I guess if you add hose clips and delivery it must be about £400?

[MikeC 10]

Jackherer

I paid less than that for the entire kit including postage to ireland. There is also a discount for being a member

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

 

Not exactly what I said, though, is it?! At no point did I refer to bends, tees or steps...which a hydraulics firm should be able to add without any trouble at all.

 

Sorry but still absolute rubbish. How can a formed tight radius bend be made in a length of straight hose off a reel? How can a step up or down in diameter be made? How can a moulded in tee be formed? Answer, they cannot, without starting to swage in metal fittings or reducers, all of which add to cost and not to mention make it look like a dogs breakfast.

I work with a few hydraulic companies on a daily basis and know what is and is not possible.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I couldn't work out where that price came from but if you add up the price of the full set of coolant hoses (£167), the breather hoses (£105), the oil filler hose (£35) and the SAD hoses (£35) you reach £342 and I guess if you add hose clips and delivery it must be about £400?

Mine was probably cheaper as it was a good few years ago. Probably 5 years.

[Richard2005 2]

Exhaust update - took the car in. It has a single downpipe and they'd ordered a single downpipe. Issue is, my car has a lambda sensor. Kwik Fit cannot source an exhaust to fit so I'm back to having a noisy rattle between 3 & 4k revs. Bah!

 

With a 7 week old baby I've little time to play with it myself, hence why going to them - thought it'd be a quick win (assuming the earlier mention dual/single d/p wasn't an issue).

 

Hose prices below - prices shown on the site are ex VAT.

_{SOHBKIT8v205 205 8v Silicone Oil Breather Hose Kit - Black 1 £ 105.00}

_{SOHBClips Oil Breather Hose Clip Set 1 £ 15.00}

_{B-H-2058vOilF 205 8v Silicon Oil Filler Hose - Black 1 £ 35.00}

_{B-205SSPipe 205 Stainless Steel Inner Wing Pipe 1 £ 18.00}

_{MikalorClamps Mikalor Coolant Hose Clamp Set 1 £ 7.00}

_{B-H-2058v 205 8v Silicon Coolant Hoses Kit - Black; RHD 1 £ 167.00}

_{£ 347.00 ex VAT total}

_{£ 416.40 Inc VAT total}

 

_{Edit - just to clarify, new baby means little time to play with the car, not myself}

Edited May 2, 2014 by Richard2005

[jackherer 543]

The downpipe is always a single pipe externally but if you look inside it you'll find it is two pipes shaped like an uppercase D.

[Richard2005 2]

Thanks jackherer, with you.

 

Does anyone know whether my current exhaust is bastardised? I've looked on a few sites and can't see a non-cat downpipe with hole for lambda sensor.

 

Klarius (Timax) seem to get mentioned a fair amount. Have found:

cat - http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/PEUGEOT/205/1.9/1992/__/79/630368/exhaust-part/

non cat - http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/PEUGEOT/205/1.9/1992/__/79/630186/exhaust-part/

 

My VIN is VF320CDK225019364 which I believe makes it a XU9JAZ. The site in the links above think it should have a cat fitted.

[welshpug 1,622]

Yes it should have a Cat, they will run fine without and most will pass an MOT without too.

 

However as you mention there wont be a boss for a Lambda on the non cat downpipe, these cost a few quid off ebay and you can get it welded on easily, M18x1.5.