Rebuilding Head Soon Checklist..

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

right my head is off being skimmed, whilst i was there i ordered a set (well two sets) of stem oil seals for a xu10j4rs. the bloke said it comes up with two types listed for different engine numbers?.

 

reading somewhere else i see that there are some for 5mm valves and some for 6mm valves that right? which do i need seeing as im using the xu7 valves.

 

also need to confirm this is correct.

 

xu7 head

xu10j4rs double valve springs

xu10j4rs spring seats

xu10j4rs valve seals

xu10j4rs spring retainers and collets

xu10j4rs followers and buckets??

xu7 valves

xu10j4rs cams and pulleys.

xu7 cambelt and tensioners

 

 

[welshpug 1,626]

They are all 6mm, rs head only ever used one type of seal, same as many vw group engines, few volvos, tu5's and es9 from memory.

 

Xu7 o/s gasket, unless you are having the cutouts modified.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

'xu7 o/s gasket'?

 

was going to use a xu7 h/g yeah.

 

hes ordered both parts numbers so will see which ones match mine, i'll also find out what the difference is

[Anthony 1,000]

I assume that he means O/S as in over-sized, or better known as a repair gasket which is a little thicker than normal to compensate for the amount skimmed from the head.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Oh right, I'm only going down to 136.8 and assumed that was fine on a std gasket?

[welshpug 1,626]

no, hence why Peugeot sell a repair gasket

 

A few so called "specialists" say its fine to skim 0.3mm+ and use std gaskets, but its quite obvious that this is not safe even though they have "got away with it"

 

Cutouts on the XU7 aren't great, in the same style as the XU10J4R and RS, enough for std and very mild cam upgrades, I'm fairly sure Sandy has posted what's safe in an XU7 a few times previously.

[Anthony 1,000]

A few so called "specialists" say its fine to skim 0.3mm+ and use std gaskets, but its quite obvious that this is not safe even though they have "got away with it"

"Safe" depends on the cams and timing - 0.3mm skim should be fine on standard cams at standard timing, but it's not going to be with hotter cams or a notably over-advanced standard inlet.

 

It makes sense to me to plan to leave sufficient cleanance for atleast a mild cam in case you choose to go down that route in future, which is what Mei is getting at.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Well that was close glad I didn't order a std gasket then.

 

Given I'm using rs cams I won't take the risk.

 

What's the best (and cheapest ) place to buy one?

[welshpug 1,626]

0209 Q3 is standard 0209 V4 is repair, pug list them at £55 and £90 respectively!

 

so yeah, I'd try your local motorfactor and ensure you get a decent brand like meillor (which make the originalls) corrteco or victor reinz

 

GSF list a standard part at £15.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

ouch, that much really?

 

you think i could 'get away' with a std one given i dont plan on putting anything other than the rs cams in with std timing.?

 

its not i'm tight ....... ok it is, but thats an obsene amount of cash for a gasket.

 

carparts4less list a std fia one for £11 delivered so its a massive saving if i can get away with it.

 

if i could get a repair one for £55 it be a bit happier but not much

[Anthony 1,000]

Assuming that the head hasn't been heavily skimmed previously, then yes, it should be fine for standard cams at standard timing.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Even with xu10j4rs cams in sn xu7 engine?

 

it Hasn't been skimmed at all, and only going to maximum 0.2mm .

 

Bonus

Edited March 26, 2013 by pugpete1108

[Roon 29 1 Cars]

Personally if I was going to all the effort of rebuilding the head I would want to not cheap out on a decent head gasket.

 

When modifying a engine it's simply not worth putting a weak link in the mix as that will most likely be the first thing to go pop.

[welshpug 1,626]

do a dry build, see for yourself how much clearance you'll have

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=84170

 

 

by the looks of that, it seems the cutouts may not be quite as small as I imagined, but still not brilliant, if you are going for a skim I would check how much clearance you have radially on the cutouts given the valves wont be central to them when skimmed due to the inclination of the valves.

Edited March 26, 2013 by welshpug

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

How would I go about checking for clearance with a dry build?

 

Plasticine on top if the pistons then torque the head down and turn it over by hand and strip to see maybe?

[welshpug 1,626]

not quite, head fitted with no valves or cams bar one valve and a light weight spring, place a dial gauge on the tip of the valve and see how much movement off the seat you have at TDC, and also a few degrees past TDC, how many I'm not sure but PeterT can confirm that, depends how quickly past tdc the piston starts moving down the bore.

 

if my understanding of it is correct from what sandy posted in the thread I linked to, is that although there's more static clearance @TDC, the space doesnt increase quite as fast as other pug engines due to its geometry, though with a fairly mild standard cam I dont think it will be an issue.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

it took a few reads of that but i think ive got you , cheers bud

[petert 554]

Fit the head with one inlet valve and no spring or retainer. Even a light spring is unnecessary. Just measure how far the valve drops at TDC. It will be closer at approx 6 deg ATDC. Once you have the drop figure, subtract the lift at TDC cam figure.

 

eg

valve drop @ 6 deg ATDC: 0.180"

cam lift @ TDC: 0.120"

 

0.180 - 0.120 = 0.060" (bad)

 

0.080" is the generally accepted limit for a hydraulic inlet, thus pistons would need machining 0.020" minimum.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

The multi layered metal hg I used cost £90 trade. I would never buy a cheap head gasket!

[Sandy 189]

Stick to brands for HG, As you say, Mellior, Reinz, Corteco. Do not risk BGA etc for this, some of their gaskets are literally useless, won't even seal the coolant at the outset.

 

RS stem seals only fit some heads that have the 9mm OD stepped guide, most XU7 guides are 10mm OD stepped and need to be machined for RS seals (hance the various listings, all are 6mm ID except very early 7mm, 5mm was never used), also the RS retainers may not get as far as the seat due to guide taper, check that.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Stick to brands for HG, As you say, Mellior, Reinz, Corteco. Do not risk BGA etc for this, some of their gaskets are literally useless, won't even seal the coolant at the outset.

 

RS stem seals only fit some heads that have the 9mm OD stepped guide, most XU7 guides are 10mm OD stepped and need to be machined for RS seals (hance the various listings, all are 6mm ID except very early 7mm, 5mm was never used), also the RS retainers may not get as far as the seat due to guide taper, check that.

so i will need to have the guides machined?

 

and cheers for the info peter, i'll check when i get it back

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

well picked the head up this morning, was in good shape so they told me as it only had 6 tho off.

 

measured it at 136.86 after skim.

 

had aproblem with the stem seals though as both the sets he ordered which were from the payen catalogue for the rs engine were wrong. bot were similar to the xu7 seal as in one peice but both were waaay to big for the double valves to fit over.

 

ecp list them for £29 with vat a set of 20 so just going to see if pug are cheaper than that.

 

anyway shiny pics ahoy.

 

 

 

[welshpug 1,626]

before you go ordering them, I got my last set for a tenner, £29 is more than pug want for them, IIRC about £1.20 each from a dealer.

 

BGA is the brand I got.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

where did you get them from? fecking robbing barstewards.

[welshpug 1,626]

My local motorfactor, so probably supplied through FPS (Ferraris Piston Services)

 

I can't get the BGA Ecat to work at the mo so not sure of the part number, but they're the same as many vw audi engines, and volvo, same a s a TU5J4 and ES9 even though the o.e numbers are different.