Weber Alpha,is It All That ?

[barrass 0]

Has anyone tried a Weber Alpha kit on a 1.9 engine,is there any real advantage over just using the carbs with standard ignition,what do i need to leave on the car to control ignition when converting to carbs ?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

It was "all that" in about 1995.

 

These days there are better options.

 

The main limiter with the Weber Alpha gear is that the software to set it up is not publically available, meaning you will have to take the car to a Weber Alpha dealer to have anything done to it, and perhaps even to get it to run.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

^^^ wot e said; just to re-enforce the point

Edited December 14, 2011 by brumster

[Baz 421]

Yup, don't even bother, way more hassle than it's worth especially when there's bugger all dealers around these days!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Nothing wrong with the system or even support from Webber Alpha which I was shocked how good it was, 'But' the major downside is finding someone to map it,

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

As above it's pretty dated now better off running omex, emerald or a like. If you do decide to keep it can get it mapped at Northampton Motorsport as we are still a Weber Alpha dealer.

[barrass 0]

Thanks for the advice,do I really need ignition managment anyway or will it run ok with just the distributor and coil ?

[TBC WEBER 45s 4 1 Cars]

my mate has got on his mark 1 xr2 2l zetec he went from 45s to alphas like the man says pain in the ass to get sorted but hell well worth the hassle now at 230 bhp

[TBC WEBER 45s 4 1 Cars]

Thanks for the advice,do I really need ignition managment anyway or will it run ok with just the distributor and coil ?

Yep std will run ok on dis and coil

[welshpug 1,627]

save a little more and do it properly with Bodies and a decent ecu IMO

[edbar 6]

I run it. With the engine i have with dizzy was pretty dire, fitted alpha and its spot on even though its only running 2d not 3d at the moment. Got mine set up at aldon automotive, in my opinion they are fantastic and local for me too. Throttle bodies are always better but if it is the option you can afford then its not a bad one. I got my ecu and loom for £150 all in and took it because Aldons are so local for me (25 mins) If it was over an hour would have maybe thought twice.

[Cameron 16]

save a little more and do it properly with Bodies and DTA / Omex IMO

 

EFA!

 

On a similar subject, has anyone tried the Omex TB kits you can get - here? They're supposed to be completely plug & play and for £1500 that isn't too bad!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

LOL, Who told you that, Missing coil pack, HT Leads, Sensors and a good map

[welshpug 1,627]

no linkages or filters either.

[Cameron 16]

LOL, Who told you that, Missing coil pack, HT Leads, Sensors and a good map

 

Coil pack £20

HT leads £20

Sensors £0 (on't engine!)

Good map £Priceless

 

 

But seriously though, nitpicking much? No ITB setup comes with any of the above!

[Anthony 1,000]

On a similar subject, has anyone tried the Omex TB kits you can get - here? They're supposed to be completely plug & play and for £1500 that isn't too bad!

Plus filter, plus linkage, plus other missing bits, plus VAT - that's well over £2k already, and then it realistically needs mapping as what's included will at best be a very good base map and won't be ideal, especially when chances are most people won't be running an otherwise completely standard engine, cam timing etc anyway.

 

The "plug and play" loom almost certainly won't be either, as it will still need finishing / adapting to join up to the car side ignition, fuel pump etc wiring, and won't include a dash sensor loom - clearly this isn't an issue if you're comfortable with wiring, but if you're not, that's another chunk of money paying someone to sort it out for you. The loom will just be a pre-wired management loom that may or may not be the right length depending how you're routing the wiring and mounting the ECU.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can see the attraction in something like that kit as it does take out a lot of the work, just like the similar Emerald+Jenvey kit that Emerald sell - but to suggest that it's plug and play for £1500 is very naive when, realistically, you're talking another grand on top of that once you've added the missing bits, VAT, and mapped.

 

Also, use of standard Mi16 injectors as they're suggesting is a bit dubious for anything bar a standard spec engine given that they're only 214cc. Trumpets look very short too - fine for ease of fitment, but probably far from optimal length (and another set of trumpets is what - £100-120 or so?)

 

I'm not sure what the price is these days, but I remember that the Colin Satchel throttle body setup used to look very attractive price wise compared to Jenveys once you'd actually priced up everything needed, and is obviously well proven in terms of fitment and performance. Buying that, together with an ECU and pre-made loom would probably work out better both in terms of costs and results.

[Cameron 16]

Alright if we're going to be all pedantic.. did any of you read the product description?

 

Inlet Manifold

45mm Throttle Bodies

Fuel Rail

Air Horns

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Throttle Position Sensor

Air Temperature Sensor

Ready Mapped 600 Series ECU

Race Spec Fully Built Wiring Harness

Installation instructions

Mapping Software

 

Are included in the bundle.

 

Price with VAT is £1850, you can get a suitable Bosch coil for ~£50 on ebay, then assuming worst case it needs to be mapped that's another £350 tops, so call it £2250.

 

Now compare that to a Jenvey kit.. you pay £1600 for the throttle bodies alone, then £650 for an ECU and you're already spending the same as the mapped Omex setup. Don't forget you then have the same £350 to get it mapped, £150 for a proper filter and the same for a minifold.. Now, to me the Omex is starting to look like pretty good value!

 

Now we have the costs well ant truly discussed, can anybody who's actually used the Omex kit comment on quality and performance etc? I know their ECU and software is one of the best in the price range, but I don't know much about the hardware.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Cameron

[Anthony 1,000]

Alright if we're going to be all pedantic.. did any of you read the product description?

Yes. Did you, because you've clearly overlooked what's NOT included and what the limitations are on any kit?

 

Price with VAT is £1850, you can get a suitable Bosch coil for ~£50 on ebay, then assuming worst case it needs to be mapped that's another £350 tops, so call it £2250.

Plus filter, plus linkage, plus potentially injectors and trumpets for best results (if the pictures are correct).

 

Which brings you to £2500+ as I said

 

Now compare that to a Jenvey kit.. you pay £1600 for the throttle bodies alone, then £650 for an ECU and you're already spending the same as the mapped Omex setup. Don't forget you then have the same £350 to get it mapped, £150 for a proper filter and the same for a minifold.. Now, to me the Omex is starting to look like pretty good value

Where on earth are you getting a figure of £1600 for Jenveys? The Mi16 kit is £726 ex VAT on the Jenvey website including manifold (but excluding some bits like FPR that come with the Omex kit) and chances are that it can be obtained cheaper elsewhere.

 

I'm not saying that the Omex kit isn't cheaper than buying all the bits individually - of course it is - but it's not the £1500 all in plug and play bargain that you were implying. When the actual price is taken into account, there is other options out there - such as the Sandy Brown / Colin Satchell setup - that would potentially be a far better bet from a cost and performance point of view.

[welshpug 1,627]

and they still point at the bloody bonnet

 

 

one big thing I like about the bike body setup that Sandy and Colin produce is that you only need to add a filter backplate and filter, there is no linkage required and there's a nice quadrant specifically made for the original throttle pedal, and unless the price has gone up more, its £600.

 

you can use the standard fuel rail and reg, standard injectors, shortened throttle cable, the bodies used tend to have a pot already fitted, far less balancing issues too due to the o.e honda subsidiary that make most of them (keihin)

 

prices to finish it all from memory (assuming you already have the fuel rail and injectors, or can get them at a reasonable cost)

 

DTA £550, a Loom by sandy £300, mapping £330, backplate+filter £150.

[Cameron 16]

Yes. Did you, because you've clearly overlooked what's NOT included and what the limitations are on any kit?

 

 

Plus filter, plus linkage, plus potentially injectors and trumpets for best results (if the pictures are correct).

 

Which brings you to £2500+ as I said

 

 

Where on earth are you getting a figure of £1600 for Jenveys? The Mi16 kit is £726 ex VAT on the Jenvey website including manifold (but excluding some bits like FPR that come with the Omex kit) and chances are that it can be obtained cheaper elsewhere.

 

I'm not saying that the Omex kit isn't cheaper than buying all the bits individually - of course it is - but it's not the £1500 all in plug and play bargain that you were implying. When the actual price is taken into account, there is other options out there - such as the Sandy Brown / Colin Satchell setup - that would potentially be a far better bet from a cost and performance point of view.

 

Sorry, have we got our wires crossed here or something? Do you think I'm trying to sell this to you?

 

Even so, I'll humour you:

£871 inc VAT for Jenvey bodies

£650 for an ECU of choice

£200 for a loom

£350 for a map

 

£2071 for just the base products that you're already getting in the Omex setup that costs £1850!

 

I know it isn't as simple as just buying the Omex kit as a 100% plug and play, I'm smart enough to know that that's rarely ever the case. But to me it represents an alternative to Jenvey that apparently nobody seems to be trying. Why not? Quality of parts? Or just that everyone wants to go with the name everyone knows?

[welshpug 1,627]

"quality of parts" they're the same aren't they

[Cameron 16]

"quality of parts" they're the same aren't they

 

What, Omex and Jenvey?

[Anthony 1,000]

Aren't the Omex bodies just rebadged Jenveys anyway?

 

They certainly look very similar to the later Jenveys, and Omex will only be buying someone elses kit and rebranding it, much like other companies providing throttle body kits do.

 

Kindly read my previous reply - in particular the last paragraph - and you'll see that I've already covered the point that you're now trying to argue

[welshpug 1,627]

[Cameron 16]

Where are you and Baz buying your records from?