306 Hdi Non Starting...

[All Praise The GTI 3]

had my hdi a year now and its never failed to start,always ran fine.

drove it yesterday afternoon went out to it this afternoon and turned over slowly then battery died. hooked up some jump leads and its turning over fast and sounds ok but not firing atall by the sounds of it.

not had a chance to check for fuel etc as its dark. not happy as work early in morning so will have take the 205 or get a lift

any suggestions please guys??

thanks in advance

[welshpug 1,627]

check that the lift pump is working firstly, that's one of the most common faults, that and fuel pump relays.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

i knew/was hoping you would reply welshpug

thanks, lift is low pressure in pump isnt it? presume i test this by putting 12v to the pump under seats?

and where are the relays? are there any fuses to check?

thanks mate

[Anthony 1,000]

When cranking over, check that the rev counter flutters - if it does, the the ECU is working to a point and seeing the engine turning over.

 

On the in-tank lift pump, there's two pairs of wires - one pair for the pump, and one for the fuel level gauge. Should be 12v to the fuel level wires (the thinner pair) with ignition on, and 12v to the fuel pump wires (the thicker pair) when cranking - well, it would probably be closer to 9-10v as the starter turning will drop the voltage a little.

 

The brown fuel pump relay is tucked behind the ECU in the near side rear engine bay. It looks similar to the standard GTi-6 fuel pump relay, but is not the same part. A new relay is about £15 from Peugeot, and certainly my dealer has them in stock.

[Mongo 0]

You`ll hear the pump on start up, if it doesnt make a noise then its not getting power to the pump, its a very common fault, many have been bodged with wiring straight to the pump, when a new relay is cheap!

 

Try switching the ignition on then off ,then baack to on again to see if the lift pump kicks in (or a couple of times).

[All Praise The GTI 3]

well ive had take half day off to look at it in the light

cant hear the pump but never have! will pull seats up and get someone to turn key so i can listen close.

just undid a injector pipe and with ignition on it poured out like a tap so i guess lift pump is working??

took air filter out and sprayed brake cleaner in and it fired up and then died so it must be fuel related i think

it had a new high pressure pump in the bay just before i got it so i hope thats not died

as much as id love to drive the 205 everyday i dont think its a good idea besides i cant afford too

[welshpug 1,627]

Does sound like the lift pump is working if the fuel pissed out when you cracked an injector pipe open, that's if you didn't crank it as there would be some residual pressure from the High pressure pump I think.

 

It may be a pressure sensor down, this is on the fuel rail, costs £107 or a crank sensor, not sure if the gti6 crank sensor will work with these ecu's, EDIT!, they aren't, they are a 2 pin item that's £15 from pug.

 

there's a cam sensor, but I don't think they're known for causing issues, another £15 part.

 

May be time for a diagnostic check at a garage I guess, as you've proved the engine itself is ok with the brake cleaner.

Edited November 15, 2010 by welshpug

[All Praise The GTI 3]

bugger. anyway of testing at home?? cant really tow it to work 20 miles away and cant afford to get a garage to do it. might have to see if work will lend me one the diagnostic computers and show me how to use it or persuade one the guys come back here with me lol

bloody cars!!

just read online unpluging the rail pressure sensor if its faulty will give a reading enough to start it??

[welshpug 1,627]

worth a shot!

 

you work at a garage?

[All Praise The GTI 3]

yes work at a mains dealers. im in parts. just spoke to a friend whos going to pop round tonight with a diagnostics tool

[welshpug 1,627]

cool, I think they'd be a bit weary with someone taking a 5k + diag tool home with them sometimes!...

[All Praise The GTI 3]

yer lol. the small hand ones for checking arent a bad price from snap on but the proper consort ones must cost a fortune!!

[welshpug 1,627]

yeah, a friend has one of the small MAC ones, but it wont read pug HDI's this old.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

bugger, hope mates works or il have to try get it in the garage

[All Praise The GTI 3]

just tried a new mac one it worked

got p0403- egr- predictable lol

and p00cc ?? now going to look it up

just strange lift pump is kicking in but im sure its fuel starvation now as it will start by spraying down the inlet

[james306 0]

I will be watching this thread reluctantly, as i'm currently breaking my hdi which had simaler issues. Let me know if you need any bits!

 

When you say you took off an injector pipe and it gushed out, if it was after the HP pump it should be spraying out with a lot of pressure rather than gushing out. To test the lift pump, just take the fuel line off the top of the filter housing and turn ignition on and off again, it should gush out for around 3-4 seconds.

 

I changed the HP pump on mine with no luck, as for diagnostics mine came up with EGR also, but every other problem was irrelivant.

 

Suggestions I had to try was replace the pressure regulator on pump, get a bigger hammer, stop buying french cars and try the regulator on the end of the fuel rail as Welshpug suggested. I tried all, and none worked in my case (apart from buying the 205 )

[welshpug 1,627]

seen P00CC before, but can't remember what it was, other than its a specific code to PSA ecu's

 

it doesn't come up in my copy of autodata, but did on my local specialists version.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

no idea what to do now

cant afford to go out and buy all the sensors new just to try them.

james306 i could be interested in a few bits to try get it running if you can do me a deal

i guess i need to try: crank and cam sensor, rail pressure sensor, and i think theres one on the pump you say??

[james306 0]

You're in the same position I was in, I was reluctant to go out and buy various sensors only to find they don't solve the problem. The pressure regulator on the pump was my first port of call as there were several people online whith RHY engines that had these faulty. I have someone taking just the block and head, so all the sensors etc are up for grabs. If you want I could take all the relevant bits off for you to try?

 

Bear in mind, I never found the fault with mine so one of them may be faulty. I have 3 regulators though so I know it's not that.

[alync406 4]

It would be a good idea to see if the car will start on a tow. I have seen a few HDi's not starting due to not building up enough pressure in the high pressure pump I think. When you try starting them on a tow they can start and then start OK every time after, a few I seen do this are still going definately more then a year after and nothing replaced in them.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

i havent tried towing or bump starting it yet but will if get the chance.

just cant understand how it drove perfectly then overnight it dies

that would be great thanks james, let me know how much you want and for postage etc and we can sort something out. much appreaciated

[lfallgti 12]

I had a similar problem with my escort van, (not quite the same i know). It turned out it wasn't cranking hard enough to get enough fuel pressure up to the engine and wouldn't hold it there. It would only jump start off the 306 as it cranked harder.

 

You mentioned that it turned over slowly, is the battery good?

 

I'd definitely give it a tow as i'd be willing to bet with the cold weather the battery's fubar'd.

Edited November 16, 2010 by lfallgti

[jeremy_spoke_in 2]

HDIs are great when they are going but i had the cut ot non start in mine recently.

 

Would drive fine then cut out and not start for maybe half an hour or more. Diag light on dash which would go out after a day or so. Then it would drive fine for up to 500 miles before doing the same again.

 

I changed the in tank pump last week and so far mines hasn't cut out again so i'm hoping its sorted.

 

As said above make 100% sure the in tank pump is working as its easy to change.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

had it hooked up to another car as battery no good so its turning over fast but not kicking in. and ive heard the lift pump whine with ignition on so that should be fine

really stumbled, stil cant find out what p00cc fault code is???

[RossD 43]

You really need a good diagnostic system and someone who knows what they are doing. It's easy to work out what's going on by looking at the raw\live data that a good diagnostic system can provide. If you don't have this, then it's going to get expensive as you'll be guessing at what is wrong and changing components until is not a very sensible solution.

 

I've used the iLEXA forum and it is pretty good, but you generally need at least some data or a fault code to get you going!

 

Good diagnostics forum

 

 

Did the tool you had it connected to able to show live data from all of the sensors connect to the ECU?

Also don't be fooled that because you can here the liftpump working that it's working properly. There is a valve in the fuel filter that doesnt open until the primary circuit (The low pressure from the tank to the filter) reaches 3bar. When 3 bar is reached the valve opens and fuel is supplied to the HP pump.

 

One idea - I converted P00CC from hex and it spits out P0204 which is an injector fault. This would certainly cause a nonstart situation. Before you go changing injectors though, it's almopst always the wiring loom causing the actual problem, if it indeed is the problem!

Edited November 16, 2010 by RossD