My 205 Is Off The Road........again

[GLPoomobile 958]

Since getting the 205 MOT'd a couple of months ago, I'd noticed it was losing a little bit of water from the header tank. Not a lot, and didn't worry me. I just thought it was seeping from a hose somewhere. However, I did notice some water collected on the front of the block between the ribbing, but I thought it might have just been rain water sprayed up off the road that had pooled there.

 

At 4am on Sat morning we set off for Falkirk. I'd done all the pre journey checks and found the header tank almost empty. Not good, but still I wasn't overly concerned (I'm a bit niaive). Topped it up and took a bottle of water with me.

 

Our first stop off at services was about 150 miles in. Checked the header tank to find it amost empty, so topped it up with 2 litres. I could now see it was leaking half way down the block at the alternator end.

 

Subsequent stops along the way at ever increasing intervals saw the header tank running dry every time, with the last one just miles from our destination when I had to put 4 litres in How it was managing to not overheat I'll never know!

 

I was convinced the block must be cracked. How? Why? Couldn't fathom. BUt luckily I'd brought my tools. So after arriving in Falkirk at 1200, me and my mate Jamie went to Halfords and picked up some chemical metal. We dropped the coolant and pulled the inlet manifold off and I stuck my finger in the gap to try and find the crack. All I could feel was the end of the head bolt, which I hadn't realised was there. Why was it leaking out? At this moment Jamie pointed to the coolant on the floor and the obvious signs of oil in it, I then pulled the breather cap off to find lots of mayo. I thought I must have overheated the engine on the way and cooked the gasket.

 

Then it all fell in to place. The starting problems I've been having. It wasn't a starter, battery or dodgy connection. It was coolant weeping in to the cylinders causing too high compression for the starter. That's why it groans for the first few times and then by about the 3rd attempt it turn as if there was never anything wrong. I've obviously had the problem for a while and caining the arse off it on the way back from Dan's the other week must have just made the problem much worse.

 

So the plan was to stick some chemical metal under the headbolt in a lame attempt to try and stem the flow of coolant. BUt I was worried that it might make the headbolt difficult to remove later on, so I called Dan up to check. After explainging the problem, he suggested using Radweld. So off we went to Halfords again and got some.

 

I decided to whack the chemical metal on anyway and leave the system dry until the morning so it could set. We whacked everything back together just before it got too dark to work at about half 3. This morning (well, yesterday morning technically ) we filled the syste, warmed the engine and then whacked the radweld in. Took it up the road and back, and f*** me if it didn't actually work Not a drip from it.

 

I've just got back home before idnight after a 9 hour drive. Took it easy for most of the way, short shifting, keeping it below 4k, only using about 1/4 throttle. Never used any water (although it's definately still letting a bit in to the cylinders), no white smoke, seemingly no drop in performance either. I can see the coolant in the tank bubling though. As we got nearer London I gave it a bit more stick and it honestly doesn't seem be affecting it

 

So yet another bit of drama, and it always seems to happen on my Scotland trips. There's no way in hell I'm f***ing about changing the gasket myself, so now I'm going to have to save to get it done. Dan mentioned it was more likely to be corrosion on the head than the gasket itself. Hopefully a skim will sort that as I don'f fancy sheling out for a replacement head as well.

Edited December 14, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[hexhamstu 9]

Radweld worked a treat on my camper van. Started to use quite a bit of coolant from a leak I couldn't trace. Whacked that stuff in and it was gone.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Horrible stuff, Bar's leaks is much better I;ve found.

But leaving the cap off too helps as it won't pressurize the system and in this weather it's not going to make any differance.

Do you know what Gasket is on there? you can tell by the tab sticking out behind the stat housing as with all XU engine's,

If it is corrosion your unlucky as the casting's got better on the 6's compared to the older Mi's which really do suffer from this,

[hexhamstu 9]

Oh it was bars leaks I used. I thought it was generally the same stuff?

 

I thought that GLP has an MI not a 6?

Edited December 14, 2009 by hexhamstu

[GLPoomobile 958]

Yes, it is an Mi. I did the see Bars Leak, but went with the Holts as it matched the description Dan gave (he couldn't remember the brand). I've heard that Radweld is never recommended as it can cause other problems, but to be perfectly frank my main consideration was just to get the car back home from 400 odd miles away! So I went along with it.

 

If it causes more problems then f*** it, it'll be getting a jerry can of petrol and a lighter as I've just about had it up to here with the stupid thing.

 

It'll be interesting to see what the result is when it comes apart. The engine was partially rebuilt by DES before it was put in a few years ago. Without looking at the receipt I'd hazard a guess that it's done less than 10,000 miles since. Not sure if the rebuild included renewing the gasket, but I'll check. Considering the other things I've found that were done by DES on this car, which I don't consider to be of an very good standard, then it'll be interesting to see if this is another thing to add to the list.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I feel for you Steve.

 

However and honestly, a head gasket change is a day's work at worst, even an afternoon could see it done with all the bits lined up, decent space to work and the appropriate tools.

 

I acknowledge where you live makes this a tad difficult, but why not ask Dan (or even Ian) if you can do it over their place? This way you avoid labour costs, can crack on and perhaps have a bit of assistance when you need it.

 

*Loctite 5920 for exh fanimold

*New downpipe clamp or clamp bolts & fire ring (optional)

*Inlet gasket(s)

*Head gasket

*Scraper/blade

*Head bolts

*Silicon sealant

*Oil

*Coolant

*Water pump (optional)

*Cambelt

*Tensioners (based on your noise thread, perhaps a good idea)

 

You'll need a torque wrench and Torx bolts, but otherwise with the right prep you could establish peace of mind for £75 plus a committed afternoon, and not be reaching for that petrol can and match so soon again.

Edited December 14, 2009 by DrSarty

[kyepan 291]

I agree with richard.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

And I meant Torx 'drives' rather than bolts.

[kilauea 7]

I did my first head gasket this year. I'd say do it if someone can be around to help out. If not, leave it to the pro's - it will be done a lot quicker with much less stress for you.

[lagonda 41]

Yes you could change gasket in a day...but ideally getting head skimmed would delay things....then while you're getting the head skimmed, you might as well rebuild it. Oh & then there's not much to do now to remove the rods & pistons....only really the sump to come off. Once you've got to that stage, the liners might as well come out & get honed.....in the end I did & changed just about everything to ensure the car was reliable once all back together....only took TWO YEARS! To be fair I was extremely busy with other stuff.....luckily I had my trusty rusty Lancia Y10 still so pressed that back into service....most reliable car I've ever had....complete opposite of the CTi. Grrr.

[SweetBadger 91]

It's a fairly simple job to do a HG on an MI, have done quite a few on mine now.

 

I don't mind lending a hand on a weekend, (providing it's not as baltic as it is outside right now! ) and can bring round all the necessary tools...

 

My record for a HG change on the MI was when a copper headgasket went wrong and I had to get it off my grandparentals driveway and MOTd the same day - Started at 10am car was MOT'd at 3! Was like bloody challenge Anneka...

 

Would recommend that you get the head skimmed though - for the sake of around £20 for a skim it's not worth the hassle and time of having to pull it all apart again if it's warped

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Did my first head gasker last month (TU 8v though, simplest engines ever!?) Took me a matter of hours as the head was barely gone, I straight edged it to check if it needed skimming, it didnt, so cost me £18 for the gasket and a little extra for some coolant and an oil top up! (getting a full service in Jan)

 

Ali

[taylorspug 7]

I was going to phone you later Steve ans see how you got on. Sorry i missed your second call the other day. Told you it would work didnt I?! Anyway im glad it got you home safe and well. If it is head corrosion rather than the gasket (which seems more likely if the engine was rebuilt), you can get the head welded in the corroded areas and then skimmed. This is what i did with my head with the same issue.

[kilauea 7]

I'd say it should be easy, but once you starting hitting snags your motivation takes a big battering.

 

For example your head bolts could seize in, your exhaust manifold studs almost certainly will, some bolts are tricky to get at (engine mount into head for example), wiring problems could surface after being unsettled, parts can fail after being removed (my dizzy did), You might find yourself missing essential tools (none of the guides I read advocated getting g-glamps to get the downpipe back on the manifold!).

 

These are things that experienced mechanics won't even think about as issues, but to a beginner they can cause you stress and really dent your enthusiasm. Nothing worse than being ready to get stuck into the car one sunday to find you can't do a thing because of something siezed, missing or you don't have the right tool for the job.

 

Having someone local to help out is essential really (Thanks Dave!).

[pablo 0]

took me 2.5hrs to do my turbo headgasket lol.

[kilauea 7]

took me 2.5hrs to do my turbo headgasket lol.

 

Brill! You could do it and there and back from belfast in a day then

[pablo 0]

I was lucky tho, having a conversion is nice sometimes as everything has been off recently.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I saw your car at Dan's when I went to pick up my ARB.

 

Looked quite tidy, sorry to hear about your problems reminds me of my blown 306td engine on the way back from Leeds.

 

Drank 10 litres of water before I got back

 

 

Did you breakdown/overheat on the M4 (bottom of the A404) back in the summer?

There was a white 205 following me and it pulled onto the hardshoulder 'cos it was overheating in traffic

[RHULPUG 0]

Ouch this sounds fairly demotivating! I'd say that with the amount of support that you have on here, a head gasket failure can be sorted pretty quickly!

If you need somewhere to work on it then let me know and I'll help out (Private garage free at the moment) - Email me if you want help!...yes I know, can be helpful sometimes!

[kyepan 291]

I saw your car at Dan's when I went to pick up my ARB.

 

Looked quite tidy, sorry to hear about your problems reminds me of my blown 306td engine on the way back from Leeds.

 

Drank 10 litres of water before I got back

 

 

Did you breakdown/overheat on the M4 (bottom of the A404) back in the summer?

There was a white 205 following me and it pulled onto the hardshoulder 'cos it was overheating in traffic

that was probably me!

[maturin23 10]

That's a bugger. Sorry to hear it Steve.

 

My personal advice is get it to Dan (if it'll make it) or up to RPM and get them to sort it asap - it'll cost you more but it'll get done quickly and properly.

 

I'm not casting aspersions on your technical ability in the slightest, but this is one of those 'easy' jobs that can go a bit nasty, especially if it's the first time you've had the head off and have less than ideal working conditions. I have memories of a grim Christmas many years ago doing a head gasket swap that got a little messy, plus my lack of faith in my job gave me a real confidence issue afterwards. Sitting in traffic gave me palpitations for months.

 

You've got to keep the faith, however hard it must seem right now. Just consider all the work you've had done stuff you won't now have to do in the future.

[Alastairh 47]

Unlucky mate.

 

Agreed with Maturin. Considering im fairly confident with a spanner, doing a head gasket on the side of the road in London over December doesn't sound like fun to me. Plus, head gaskets very easily often open up a can of worms, for example previous work and snapped head bolts, cracked blocks that only come noticeable once its apart, and soon it becomes an engine out job.

 

Al

Edited December 15, 2009 by Alastairh

[boombang 2]

I agree with all the pessimists here, it can be a lovely job sorted in a few hours but other times can be a nightmare.

 

Don't forget to skim head, you need to take cams and lifters out - that itself can turn into a few hours of cleaning and refreshing all the lifters, and worrying about some wear to a few of the lobes.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Thank f*** for the pessimists!

 

Although I appreciate all the support and offers of help, I don't want to be convinced to do it myself. I'm perfectly capable of doing it, have done one on an 8v before, and have all the tools. I'll even admit that I was swavering over whether to do it.

 

But lets be honest here, I'm a lazy c*nt. You all know it. Why encourage me to tackle something that will only inevitably lead to another 12 months off the road? And for what? To save a few bob.

 

Once the head is off, I have to get it skimmed. But I've got no transport, so I have either the hassle and expense of sending it somewhere, the hassle of taking it on public transport, or the hassle of arranging something with someone who could give me a lift. Hassle.

 

And if something goes wrong mid-job, and I'm out of my depth, I'm going to have to get it trailored to someone who can sort it. Hassle and expense.

 

The exhaust manifold bolts also put me off big time. I know what a c*nt it was getting the manifold off of an Mi that was lying on the floor. I don't want to go through that with it in the engine bay

 

At the end of the day, it comes down whether I want to do it (I don't), and whether I'm better off trusting someone more experienced to do a good quality job (I am better off). Money is always an issue, and I am a tight c*nt, but it's better to know your limitations.

 

In the meantime, I'll use the hiatus to try and get some other jobs done.

[Silky 33 1 Cars]

Use an engine crane to support/hold the engine and swing it forward, gives you much more room for the exhaust manifold bolts and makes it alot easier to do