Bad News Regarding Peugeot Rear Beam Bearings

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Would that be the radius arm shaft? Thats a type of bearing isn't it?

I don't think so, otherwise why would they mention the possiblilty of two types of bearing being used for the inners?

 

The radius arm shaft isn't a bearing either, its kinda part of the inner race but the bearing is what allows smooth transition between the inner arm & outer tube.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Nil point for me then.

 

 

Unless the fellas that wrote the Haynes just trembled in panic and fear at the thought of having to strip the tube to find out what was within and just guessed. Yeah, that'll be it.

[philfingers 5]

Right, checked both the inner and outer bearings of both the original and new, lesser spec:

 

Inner bearings:

Originals have 35 needles and are made in France by Nadalla(I think, as the stamping is quite poor - part number is something like DB47937SE but some characters are almost illegible)

New ones have 30 needles and are made in Germany by Ina (F-202029.1 is the part number)

 

Outer bearings:

Originals have 45 needles and are made in France by Torrington (DR47260EE is the part number I think, but again, some of it is difficult to make out)

New ones have 30 needles and are made in Germany by Ina (F-92635 is the part number)

 

As you can see, the inner bearings aren't massively different and would in my opinion fair alright given the reduced loading on the inners, but the outer bearings are significantly different - the originals have 50% more needles on them than the new ones I'm pretty sure that if my memory serves me right, that I've seen different manufacturers of the original outer bearings - I'm sure that I've seen some Nadalla made ones at the very least.

 

I can confirm from the beam I stripped last week (and I'm kicking myself for removing the bearings as they were 99%, but to be sure I pulled them out and ordered new ones- yet to arrive)

Inners were Nadella (definately Nadella not Nadalla) DB47937 LE (don't think they were SE anyway)

Outers were Nadella also, DB 47260EE (same 47260 number that you noted by Torrington Manufacturer

[jimistdt 1]

As in the link above is the I/D 47mm for the outer bearing?

Edited October 1, 2009 by jimistdt

[Bassman 1]

Personally I'm not switching due to the extra stiction - my car tends to be sat doing nothing for a while whilst I repair it - even a constantly used Phosphor Bronze bearing has ~20 times the stiction of a roller bearing, if they're left a while so the grease creeps out it's much more until the fresh grease gets worked back around - besides which, I can't be arsed to revalve my dampers to suit

 

Has anybody tried Oilite bronze bearings? These are bronze bearings, impregnated with oil and were developed for military use originally I think.

 

I bought a pair of 45 ID, 55 OD and 35 mm wide Oilite bearings from AshleyPower.co.uk for about 25 quid delivered and had a mate at work machine them to size for me for free. (AMC455 is the part number and then you just state the width you need)

 

I am in the process of honing them to fit my beam, but they should be less of a problem when sat as the lubricant is internal to the bearing itself.

 

Rob

[Rippthrough 98]

Yeah, we use quite a few but normally for linkages and the like, they have the same stiction problem tbh.

[philfingers 5]

yes 47mm OD for the outer bearing. The shaft OD's 47mm approx anyway, by that i mean 47.00 to maybe 47.02

[Bassman 1]

Yeah, we use quite a few but normally for linkages and the like, they have the same stiction problem tbh.

 

Ah, well it was a cheaper route than new shafts and bearings so I thought I would have a go, hopefully they will be ok if I use the car more often.

 

Rob

[SurGie 54]

Yeah, we use quite a few but normally for linkages and the like, they have the same stiction problem tbh.

 

 

Can you please elaborate what you mean by "stiction" as this word is not in the dictionary.

 

Do you mean the bronze bearings can seize around the shafts when car is left standing for a long period, due to the grease

coming out from the bearing's ??

[jimistdt 1]

Wikis got it George

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction

[SurGie 54]

Cheers Jimi

[Rippthrough 98]

Can you please elaborate what you mean by "stiction" as this word is not in the dictionary.

 

Do you mean the bronze bearings can seize around the shafts when car is left standing for a long period, due to the grease

coming out from the bearing's ??

 

Sorry, it's an abbreviation - static friction - the force needed to get things moving, so although the sliding friction on Oilite/Phosphur bronze is fairly low, the static friction, being a plain bushing rather than a rolling bearing, is quite high - it's like undoing a bolt - it takes a lot to get it moving but it's easy once it's cracked...

 

It imparts a form of friction/hysterisis effect to the damping which gives slightly less predictable handling and a bit of a harsher ride - ask Ariel Atom owners....

Edited October 1, 2009 by Rippthrough

[welshpug 1,623]

That would that be one of the reasons Rich Walker got his 306 wishbone bearings made with a needle bearing and plain cartridge bearings then?

[Rippthrough 98]

That would that be one of the reasons Rich Walker got his 306 wishbone bearings made with a needle bearing and plain cartridge bearings then?

 

Yup, same reason I use a PTFE blend in the liners on my wishbones even though they're greased and sealed, PTFE actually repels the metal surface so the static friction is actually lower than the dynamic friction in some circumstances, and much reduced from the normal, cheaper bronze liners used when greased and sealed.

 

 

Edit - bit of interesting reading for the bored: http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php?topic=1541.0

Edited October 1, 2009 by Rippthrough

[Anthony 1,000]

Edit - bit of interesting reading for the bored: http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php?topic=1541.0

Interesting reading. Have any of those kits that gti-si made actually been fitted yet, and if so, how are people finding them? Obviously a 205 isn't going to highlight differences anything like what something like an Atom will do, but it would be interesting to see what, if any, difference there is in terms of handling and ride quality between the standard needle bearings and a bronze bush.

 

And completely off-topic, but if it me or is there a crazy amount of money being thrown around on that forum?

[James_R 3]

The more costly the car is to start with the more costly the mods are, we all tight gits on this forum (well everyone else, no one wants to admit it) lol

[skeggyrik 3]

Just to confuse things for everyone, or hopefully solve the problem .....

I was in GSF Birmingham today buying a few bits.

I asked to have a look at an external trailing arm bearing.

 

What they brought out didn't look like the cheapy one in the picture Anthony has posted above, it looked just like the original pug one. It had 45 rollers all tightly spaced.

It was identical to the ones i bought from pug previously

Bearing stamped made in France Nadella with something like 47260EE.

 

So try GSF boys and girls!!!

 

 

Edit

Oh and they were £4.55 +VAT (with club discount) £5.10 without.

Edited October 2, 2009 by skeggyrik

[philfingers 5]

those are the ones! I have yet to fetch mine from the pug dealer (as I use the one in Tewkesbury, close to work, but have been off this week) but worth a look at GSF for sure. What's the 'club' discount for? Which club?

[SurGie 54]

I get a discount for using my PSOOC card membership, around 7.5% off.

[welshpug 1,623]

the dealers do actually have a price code on their systems for PSC, peugeot sport club, or at least the dealers I have used in the past and currently do so, most give 10-15% on ordered items, and mine gives trade on stock order items.

[Anthony 1,000]

Just to confuse things for everyone, or hopefully solve the problem .....

I was in GSF Birmingham today buying a few bits.

I asked to have a look at an external trailing arm bearing.

 

What they brought out didn't look like the cheapy one in the picture Anthony has posted above, it looked just like the original pug one. It had 45 rollers all tightly spaced.

It was identical to the ones i bought from pug previously

Bearing stamped made in France Nadella with something like 47260EE.

 

So try GSF boys and girls!!!

There's some twisted logic there somewhere isn't there? Peugeot used to sell the original quality bearings and GSF used to sell the nasty ones, and now it seems that Peugeot is selling the nasty ones (at OE prices!) and GSF are now selling the original ones at lower prices. Only question is, how long will they continue selling the origina spec bearings, and are there any of the nasty bearings still in their stock system?

 

Out of interest, where GSF selling them bagged in genuine Peugeot bags, or loose and/or in different packaging?

 

Thanks for the heads up though - I'll pop into my local GSF next week and see what they've got

[skeggyrik 3]

Out of interest, where GSF selling them bagged in genuine Peugeot bags, or loose and/or in different packaging?

 

 

It was not in Pug packaging, it was in a clear plastic bag labelled Sasic.

 

As for the discount, i just mentioned the peugeot sport discount and he put it on the invoice, no questions asked.

You need to mention it before they do the invoice though.

[philfingers 5]

To confirm I went in to GSF this morning and thought i'd grab some outer bearings in case the Pug ones are the poor mans version. Indeed GSF did have the correct Nadella 42760 bearings. Not in a pug bag tho. I didn't buy any as they only had one, not much use. I'll wait and see if the pug ones are good or bad!

 

Phil

[joe1joe 3]

bit late looking at this thread, but those inners proberly would be ok???

 

but the cheaper outers look realy bad! its a shame as i can see alot more tubes being destroyed using these ...

[robin_jacobs 0]

Hi,

 

Is it possible that someone can help me to get 1 external bearing from GSF with the Nadella DB42760EE bearing in the bag?

I've ordered the bearing directly from GSF but they wanne charge me with a carriage charge of 25 GBP...... I already emailed them back and said that it's just a bearing and not a whole beam And than it's still not curtain if i get the proper bearing(Nadella).

 

The other 3(2 internal/ 1 external) bearings from Nadella, i've in stock. It's just 1 external bearing

 

Hope someone will help me because i think this can be cheaper.

 

Thanks, regards

 

Robin