Sandy Brown/ Colin Satchell Throttle Bodies

[Andy F 0]

Hi people

 

I am looking at throttle body kits for the Mi16. I have searched and seen alot of people who have said the Sandy Brown & Colin Satchell ITB set ups are very good.

 

I have not been able to find any details/pictures of them.

 

I wondered if you anyone could help with cost, what is needed, availability etc

 

Thanks

Andy

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

Best bet is probably to PM Sandy ("Sandy" on here) direct, I think Colin is also registered but doesn't use the net so much.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Here's my set from these geysers. Look to pay around £600.

 

I believe it's far more than just a set of tubes and bodies. The angles/curves etc are all calculated and tested after lots of trial and error, to create/minimise airflow turbulence/vortices as required. Even the inner injector position is set to fire the fuel right at the back of the valves. And not a silicon joiner in sight.

 

Long inlet = loads of driveability and torque, which suits my road car requirements. I mated mine to an ITG filter & backplate, with Colin's trumpets inside as well.

 

 

You need an aftermarket ECU and loom. You may need to adjust/fit a new throttle cable and certainly need trumpets and a filter. Other than that it's all about the set-up and mapping. All in it's around £1500.

 

I've bunged up (with turned ally plugs) the ITB injector holes and am therefore not using the outer rail; just the standard GTI6 onto the holes near the flange.

 

I said 'flange'.

Edited June 8, 2009 by DrSarty

[wildejon 7]

I appreciate this is off topic but I've always wanted to know, do they only use trial and error with these or have they ever used CFD? Interested to know, thats my job (which I love) and cars are my passion so putting the two together has to be a good thing

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sandy as you know is technically extremely capable. Colin is a fantastic fabricator. They have used a combination of working it out from theory, consultation, experience and then testing ideas.

 

This was discussed a lot with Puma Racing when he was on here, when he spent forever and a day calculating things and Sandy, PeterT and a few others IIRC said the proof's in the pudding; meaning what looks good on paper can not necessarily turn out as well as you thought. And to a certain extent the other way is true as well. We all need a bit of luck too, which we could call error.

 

What systems Sandy used/uses to design these things I don't know. My gut feeling is that tuning is actually that, gut feeling. Someone with experience will kind of just know what's needed. This seems to be the case here as I have stupendous torque, which must partly be due to this inlet design. Who said bike bodies were no good?

Edited June 8, 2009 by DrSarty

[Andy F 0]

hmmm

 

do look like nice bits of kit, what are the Tb's based on what size are the ones you have there?

 

also what management did u use omex??

 

Is there a base map available??

 

ill get on the PM

Edited June 8, 2009 by Andy F

[feb 47]

Do they do a kit for a 8V?

Edited June 8, 2009 by feb

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The engine details are in my sig. 46mm Japanese bike bodies.

 

You tell your ECU supplier the spec of your engine and they provide you with a base map.

 

Re: 8v. Yes: They make anything you want for a cost.

[SurGie 54]

Here's my set from these geysers. Look to pay around £600.

 

You need an aftermarket ECU and loom. You may need to adjust/fit a new throttle cable and certainly need trumpets and a filter. Other than that it's all about the set-up and mapping. All in it's around £1500.

 

I said 'flange'.

 

 

What exactly does that cost £600 inc, just the parts or inlet ?

 

So your saying all parts will be £1500 ? not inc fitting etc ?

 

I'm hoping to get this sorted by Sandy next year after i have sorted out the conversion, all being well, iv heard so many good thing about having

8 injectors fitted.

 

Top stuff indeed

Edited June 8, 2009 by SurGie

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

What exactly does that cost £600 inc, just the parts or inlet ?

 

So your saying all parts will be £1500 ? not inc fitting etc ?

 

~£600 for the inlet tract complete as shown, otherwise I would've said so.

 

And obviously I wasn't very clear - although I thought I was - £1500 would get you this set up, an ECU and a map.

 

Trumpets and air filter would take you over that, unless you could get friend pricing. I never included fitting of anything, but it's not exactly difficult to bolt an inlet manifold on or connect a throttle cable. Even the loom making and fitting isn't that complicated if you put your mind to it.

 

P.S. You shouldn't quote everything SurGie, including the pictures unless you have to, as it's a bummer for anyone to load the page on a slow internet connection or modern PDA or iGizmo.

[SurGie 54]

Yes i know its easy to fit the inlet and cables, i ment putting the bodies etc all together the right way and welding etc.

 

Iv seen around, £1500 prices for jenvy bodies set up not inc inlet I think, so this is a very good price for the whole lot IMV.

 

can't wait till i can afford this lot

 

Thanks Dr S for the detailed price.

[Andy F 0]

Dr Sarty

 

What sensors does your ecu use then, Crank, Throttle position, lambda? i take it, it is distributor-less

 

Thanks

[Dj_mini 7]

Dr Sarty

 

What sensors does your ecu use then, Crank, Throttle position, lambda? i take it, it is distributor-less

 

Thanks

 

Your need to use:

 

tps

cps

air temp

water temp

coil

injectors

lamba if needed

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Off the top of my head I can't think of any reason why someone with an aftermarket ECU would still run a distributor.

 

Mine has a wideband lambda, but it's not running closed loop (i.e. communicating with the ECU and making live adjustments) so I'm going to remove it. I don't need it. In fact it's already been sold to James R.

 

All other sensors (and engine essentials like coil(s)) are as above, which is why I tell people making your own engine management loom is quite simple, as there's not that much. The other loom is things like switched live, starter solenoid, reverse switch and dials, guages and warning lights, i.e. 2 distinct looms. Approached that way it's not difficult.

[Andy F 0]

thanks for your help

 

I think ive talked myself into getting this set up, i take it you would recommend the emerald set up?

[James_R 3]

Or DTA and go to track and road in rainham essex

[Baz 421]

Iv seen around, £1500 prices for jenvy bodies set up not inc inlet I think, so this is a very good price for the whole lot IMV.

 

Should include an inlet for that kind of figure, i certainly supply them as a full kit, inc. an Emerald K3 if wanted.

[Andy F 0]

ok i have a response from sandy, gonna look at ordering

 

I take it gti-6 injectors are the way to go, has anyone had any luck with setting up the 8 injectors? what coil do you use, gti-6 as well?

[Spiky 37]

check my build thread matey

 

i have just fitted a set of colins/sandy setup i think mine are an earliy set , seem to work well, going in for a full map next week, so will see what they can do with a std engine

 

i'm running DTA S40 and an ITG filter

 

sorry for the plug..lol

 

Edited June 9, 2009 by Spiky

[Baz 421]

ok i have a response from sandy, gonna look at ordering

 

I take it gti-6 injectors are the way to go, has anyone had any luck with setting up the 8 injectors? what coil do you use, gti-6 as well?

 

Have a look at Dan taylor's thread as he's running the 8 injector setup. As is Josh now iirc. Coil-wise i have and everyone seems to use an Xu10 wasted spark type affair.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Have a look at Dan taylor's thread as he's running the 8 injector setup. As is Josh now iirc. Coil-wise i have and everyone seems to use an Xu10 wasted spark type affair.

 

Yes. It's time for you to go do some searching and reading other threads.

 

When you use 8 (staged) injectors, you tend to use lower rated injectors, working one inner set up to capacity then phasing in the outers. GTI6 injectors on their own are plenty for my 230bhp, and perhaps a bit more as they are very good.

 

A coil's pretty much a coil, in terms of standard 4 cyl coil packs, which contain 2 coils and deliver wasted spark, so you can use a 106 or 406 one as examples. Alternatively you can have individual coil packs (each with an ignitor) to run either a type of wasted spark or sequential, but you need a cam sensor/trigger for the latter.

 

Go learning dude other wise we'll end up designing your car for you in a thread about one supplier's throttle body set-ups.

Edited June 9, 2009 by DrSarty

[Andy F 0]

ok guys thanks,

 

ill set aside some time to wade through the acres of info in the other topics.

 

sorry one last silly question, all these companies ecu's come with base maps are these suitable to run a new engine in or would i need to get a map for the first start up?

Edited June 9, 2009 by Andy F

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

ok guys thanks,

 

ill set aside some time to wade through the acres of info in the other topics.

 

sorry one last silly question, all these companies ecu's come with base maps are these suitable to run a new engine in or would i need to get a map for the first start up?

 

 

A base map is literally to get your engine running and to give a base for your mapper to work from.

 

So many people run their cars on base maps, or a map they got off someones mates uncles third cousin removed for an allegro with a GTi6 engine running a cobbled together set of motorbike bodies tig'd onto a set of pipes and in turn tig'd slightly pissed, to a flange. What a lot of people dont realise is there are so many variants between cars that a "generic" map isnt potentially safe.

 

To answer your question, the best way to run the car in is upload the base map, take your car to your mapper and get them to check its safe to run in. Then cover your mileage and take it back once the oil has been changed. The mapper will then put the engine through hell and get the best from. Kosha? Sweet.

 

Maxi

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

When you use 8 (staged) injectors, you tend to use lower rated injectors, working one inner set up to capacity then phasing in the outers. GTI6 injectors on their own are plenty for my 230bhp, and perhaps a bit more as they are very good.

 

 

Careful Rich.

 

Maxi

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

So many people run their cars on base maps, or a map they got off someones mates uncles third cousin removed for an allegro with a GTi6 engine running a cobbled together set of motorbike bodies tig'd onto a set of pipes and in turn tig'd slightly pissed, to a flange.

 

 

Awesome. And included flange.

 

Explain the last comment though please Maxi as that is how I was explained to do mine before I binned the idea. Are you referring to the '6 injectors, my BHP or staged sets? I was down sizing to XU7JP4s x 8 BTW. So explain 'careful' please.