Stereo And Speaker/cabling Upgrade Options

[Rom 0]

A lot of people arent sensitive to the quality of audio compression. Some can tell 256 / 320 appart, others cant tell 128 / 320 appart !

I generally use 320 for my mp3s, 192 if i want to cram a few more tracks on a cd. Which is still way lower than proper CD quality (1411 iirc)

 

A stealth shelf is a very wise investment. Mine was a lot more than what they cost now ! But worth the money regardless.

 

Only you will know what you like the sound of. Myself, i like clear crisp punchy audio. I can go as loud as i dare (never been to max) and it still sounds clear. Im not after bass drone, that drowns out the anything above 160 hz !

Ive been in many cars that at high volume are just assault on your ears, masked by the massive amount of bass being dished out.

 

Take your time on installation, getting all the cabling neat etc.

 

Buy decent quality cabling, especially for amps if your using them.

 

Dynamat is very good at stopping panel vibrations, and keeping noise IN the car. Theres cheaper alternatives used by bodyshops etc on new door skins etc. I spend money so i can listen to music, not everyone outside the car.

 

Decent components for the front, decent 6x9s, forget about them playing bass if your using a sub, go for clarity. A 10" sub is imo, a good all rounder. If you want rumble try a 12".

 

I dont run anything from my headunit. The internal amp is turned off, everything is amped. Seperate RCA for each channel. Apart from my headunit, my system is years old, and still sounds very good. Quality lasts

 

RE cabling...8 gauge is probably enough, 4 is pretty big and bulky this is only the amp power /earth. Speaker wise, if your not replacing all the speaker wiring, i wouldnt worry too much. If your amping it all, youll want to run cable from the amp to each speaker. Flat cable reduces bulk under the carpet.

Run the RCA cables down one side of the car (drivers), and power and remote cable down the other to avoid interferance.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Rom

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

i wasnt having a dig (honest lol) just that ive spent a hell of a lot less than some of the suggestions on here and use a cd player and its sounds fine when you consider said noisy environment. not saying its amazing but it does the job

[Tesstuff 222]

I agree with you Johnny, i have spent little on mine with wise purchases and it sounds great, and i have thousands of pounds worth of unused hi-fi seperates at home, so i know my 'audiophile sound quality'

 

I just used an Alpine front end, Infinity front speakers and some 6x9's on the parcel shelf that were cheap.All using the Alpines 35x4 amplification.

 

Its great

[Rom 0]

 

Every setup, and everyone is different. Crap speakers are always crap, no matter how pure the sound is going through them.

Headunit internal amps are nowhere near as good as dedicated amps at amplifying the sound signal.

 

Myself, id prefer to have decent speakers etc. So that when i do want to turn it up, they dont distort etc. Most people, probably wont notice much differance between decent mp3 and audio cd. Obviously there are people that can, but on a blind test, id bet most cant

 

What your saying johnny makes sense, but its kind of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Poorer quality equipment might not recreate the purer audio signal faithfully... while the better equipment might recreate the lower quality better

 

Thats not to say you need to spend thousands to get a decent sound !

Ive heard plenty of stereos which are nothing more than decent headunit, components, and 6x9s. And they sound great. As with most things,you get what you pay for, a crappy amp and crappy 6x9s can easily be outdone by by decent headunit and 6x9s.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Rom

[omega 82]

dont forget to tell the insurance company as this is classed as a mod ,and i think i would also budget a couple of hundred quid for a alarm

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

8gauge wire for your possible future amp install is fine. 4gauge is as thick as your little finger to give you a guide, and you could run 3 or 4 middle power amps off that, so 8gauge will sort you out nicely.

 

I can't explain the door speaker baffles any clearer surely? Take the old OE speaker grille off. Use it to make a new MDF baffle the same dimensions. It can be 12 or 15mm thick. Find a way to screw this baffle tightly onto where the old grille went; it must screw down hard to the metal of the door.

 

If you're clever, you can make these screws hidden once the speaker is screwed to the baffle. Then remove it again, cut a hole in for the 5.25" or 6.5" speaker you're going to use and trim the baffle in car hi-fi stretchy carpet or vinyl. Then screw the baffle back to the door (your door trim panel gets squished in between BTW) and finally attach the speaker wires to the speaker, screw the speaker into the baffle and afix the speaker grille.

 

In a car I think 160kbps is fine and no-one will ever notice. Mine are mostly at 320kbps but I doubt I'd notice the difference either. IMO, the idea of car hifi is to blow your socks off; not literally in terms of volume although that can be fun. In a near-field environment like a car, you can get really close to the music and that's the fun of it. I've heard musical elements in my car I've never noticed on other systems.

 

I hope you've learnt some things here OP, as there's been great interest in this topic which many think is stoopid. Good advice from all.

Edited March 22, 2009 by DrSarty

[johno_78 2]

All the advice above has been good imo, but i have to say there's not been enough attention paid to cabling and wiring. They need to be the best you can get. Thicker, higher quality cabling will provide less resistance and introduce less interference.

 

I would only use 4 gague for an amp power wire. I've actually had 8 gague wire become hot to the touch while running an average powered amp. Decent OFC (oxygen free copper) speaker wire is also a must, again the thicker the better.

 

I've heard it said that a quality car audio sound is down to 80% installation and only 20% equipment. A well thought out and installed system will always sound better than one that's had money thrown at it with no planning.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

All the advice above has been good imo, but i have to say there's not been enough attention paid to cabling and wiring. They need to be the best you can get. Thicker, higher quality cabling will provide less resistance and introduce less interference.

 

I would only use 4 gague for an amp power wire. I've actually had 8 gague wire become hot to the touch while running an average powered amp. Decent OFC (oxygen free copper) speaker wire is also a must, again the thicker the better.

 

I've heard it said that a quality car audio sound is down to 80% installation and only 20% equipment. A well thought out and installed system will always sound better than one that's had money thrown at it with no planning.

 

All true, however I can't cost justify the 4 gauge cable to our new car h-fi friend. Admittedly, bigger = less resistance, and could certainly be classed as better. In this situation it would simply be overkill, as whilst I'm sure your hot wire story is true, my mind tells me that may have been down to something else like poor earthing or alternator issues.

 

This is not criticism of your installation or what you say in general, but it may mislead the original poster. If he goes to a decent car hi-fi shop, or looks up cable grading tables based on current capacity, he'll see exactly what power (incl) earth cabling he needs. 30amp rating cable, which is what a fairly decent 4 channel amp should require, circa 50W rms per channel, is certainly not 4gauge. The price difference between 8gauge and 4gauge would bump his cable costs up amazingly. An analogy would be putting a dual-carriageway through a village. Sure it's a 'better' road, which naturally costs more to build, but is there enough traffic to justify it?

 

Here is a cable gauging guide, which shows 4gauge to be used for 65amps plus. And I'd say that was continuous too, which is some serious welly!

 

I certainly agree with larger speaker cabling being better, but there's no need to overkill things here either. What I wouldn't use is what comes with the speakers; I would use double the gauge and no more. Sub wires should really be at least half the gauge of the power leads IMO.

 

On interference: I'm one of quite a group of people who believe well chosen routing of RCA/pre-amp wires is far more important than using expensive pre-out leads. I for one have never used anything but simple £2.50 5metre RCA leads and have never had any issues. Some pre-out wires are hyped up nonsense with gold this and gold that, triple shielded doodahs and whatever, but it's really not necessary at £30 a pop.

 

I say K.I.S.S.. Keep it simple stupid: bargain hunt, but don't skimp on the head unit or wiring and install it correctly; just as per your last point. I simply couldn't agree more with that one.

 

Another piece of advice - going along the KISS lines - is don't bother buying connectors; that's just more money down the pan. Buy a £10, waterproof main fuse holder and sufficient red wire for positive (perhaps 7 metres) and 2metres of black (same gauge). Get one ring terminal for the power wire to batt positive, and then all other power and earth leads just screw the copper wire, flared out in to a 'V' under the terminals on the amp. Same with the speaker wires at the amp end (when you have an amp), and at the other end solder the wires to the speaker tabs. This is the right way to have a proper electrical connection which also costs less money.

Edited March 22, 2009 by DrSarty

[Tesstuff 222]

Of interest??

 

[johno_78 2]

All true, however I can't cost justify the 4 gauge cable to our new car h-fi friend. Admittedly, bigger = less resistance, and could certainly be classed as better. In this situation it would simply be overkill, as whilst I'm sure your hot wire story is true, my mind tells me that may have been down to something else like poor earthing or alternator issues.

 

I can't remember what stage of audio equipment i was at, but i suspect it was when i had progressed to 2 amps and 2 12" subs. An interesting observation we noticed was that the volume and quality of the subs increased from the upgrade from 8 gague to 4 gague power wire.

 

If the OP is going to end up at this point, then i would suggest to use the 4 gague. If it's going to be an amp and 4 speakers then i agree that it wold be overkill.

 

I'll put my vote in for getting a Pioneer unit. I don't know what they are like now, but like Sarty i have a 7 year old DEH-9600 which has outperformed any other headunit i have owned.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Despite it playing Peter Gabriel for poor old GLP, I think he'll vouch for how pretty mind-blowing this hi-fi system is.

 

Yeah, spectacularly crap. As in, spectacular sound, but still crappy Peter Gabriel Nah, seriously, I've no experience in good ICE installs but Rich's install just sounds really clear, crisp, clean, with plenty of volume and deep defined bass (not really my cup of tea, but can still appreciate it). Very impressive.

[chrisj21 2]

Thanks again Rich for your generous write up and to everyone who's taking the time to explain things.

 

I won't reply just yet to the above write up regarding wiring as im still trying to get my head around it.

 

I have today ordered my stealth shelf and also some acoustic carpet which i'll be using to replace the boot carpet/matting. Also looking into some new sound deadning to replace the standard stuff.

 

I'm going to need to be quite good with my boot wiring as the plan is to carpet the boot but im unsure as to wether the carpet will be glued down therefore i need to get my wiring in the right place first.

 

Whats the best way to mount an amp and i what position?

 

Thanks again

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It would be best (for you) if you explained what wiring-wise you were still trying to get your head round. It would not be right for you to leave this thread unclear (as it would mean we'd failed you) and for you to sizzle something because you were unsure.

 

The acoustic carpet for starters is NOT for floors or for lining anything. It's an acoustically transparent material that is design to cover panels/shelves/boxes etc that speakers play through. Don't waste your money chief if you've understood us differently.

 

Keeping things simple, I'd mount an amp on the back of one of the rear seats OR on any bass box you fit. A subwoofer makes a world of difference, but it's the inclusion of an amplifier that means wiring has to be done 'extra' correctly.

 

Please ask if there's anything you need clarification on.

Edited March 26, 2009 by DrSarty