Gti6 Emergency

[Peetypug 5]

hope somebody can help

the engine is turning over

the ecu is 100% unlocked

 

but the fuel pump isnt priming and i'm not getting a spark

 

anybody help?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Crank angle sensor plugged in & working?

 

Has it run before or is this first try?

 

Graham.

[Peetypug 5]

its my first try at starting it. I've just been on msn to spiky.

The double relay is working.

I'm getting 12v to pin 14

The ecu is unlocked as m@tt used it for a month or so while he sorted his out.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The crank angle sensor is one thing that will stop it sparking.

 

Are you getting 12v at the fuel pump?

 

Have you still got the IFS (inertia fuel shut off) fitted & if you have has it tripped? (you can check for the 12v to the fuel pump here, its easier to access than under the rear seats).

 

12v to the relay pin 14 is the igntion switched input, you need to see if you are getting 12v out of the relay.

 

Graham.

[Peetypug 5]

i've cut the inertia switch off and connected the wires

i'm not getting 12v at the pump, although i have recently swapped the loom with the pump connectors on

i tried swapping the double relay for the one on my 306 and had the same results, they both started the 306 but not the 205

[Peetypug 5]

just double checked the relay by swapping them on the 306 again and they are defo fine.

I'm getting nothing at the fuel pump

[welshpug 1,622]

check that the ecu is sending the on signal to the fuel pump relay, just power to pin 14 will just give power to the injectors and coil, not the fuel pump, that's what the second half of the relay does.

 

If you haven't got spark, have you got power at the coils+injectors?

Edited January 4, 2009 by welshpug

[Peetypug 5]

check that the ecu is sending the on signal to the fuel pump relay

which is the fuel pump relay?

 

If you haven't got spark, have you got power at the coils+injectors?

 

will check tomorrow now, its too dark to see and i dont have a light outside

[welshpug 1,622]

fuel pump relay is that big brown/black thing you swapped with your 306.

 

when you turn the ignition on, the coils and injectors get power via half the relay, the ecu sends a blip to the other half of the relay to prime the fuel system.

 

then when the ecu "see's" a crank signal, it gives a permanent on signal to the relay to switch the power on to the fuel pump.

[Peetypug 5]

well i'll get a crank sensor tomorrow and swap it over.

Bet they cost an arm and a leg!

It was working before in the 306

[marksorrento205 80]

Pete I have got a crank sensor if you want to borrow it. Just to confirm the one that bolts to the gearbox that reads the flywheel teeth. Not to sound stupid but want to make sure we are on the same wave lenght I had a simular thing with my mi on omex. I could not get it to start and it all pointed to the crank sensor. Turned out a flywheel I bought from here had one of the 60-2 teeth ground down/ damaged. So my ecu was thinking it had gone round once at a third of a turn and again where the 2 teeth are missing. It took 3 weeks of pi ssing about and loads of phione calls to sort it

[welshpug 1,622]

about £20 from pug

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Slow down and think about it sensibly. If the double relay clicks when you whack the ignition on then the fuel pump should go on to prime...... If it dosent then check the fuel pump output from the double relay to see if its giving out 12v. Make sure all your switched lives are where they should be and its all earthed as it should be. It could be a whole host of small things. Although, it does sound a hell of a lot like a locked ECU.

 

Maxi

[Peetypug 5]

cheers gents.

The ecu is definatly unlocked, like i said m@tt borrowed it for a while.

Is there any way it could have relocked itself?

What pin number is for the fuel pump?

Should i check at the 9 pin plug for a switched live?

[oli-pug 6 2 Cars]

As above, definitely sounds like a locked ecu to me.

 

Surely the crank sensor wouldn't effect fuel prime. Only injection during cranking.

[M@tt 77]

like pete said i used the ECU in my conversion when i temporarily mislaid mine and it worked fine.

 

When i removed it to give it back it was removed when the engine was off but as i don't have the transponder or key i can't see how it would have locked itself again. So i really don't think it's going to be a locked ECU and more likely to be an incorrect wire joined somewhere.

 

Pete give us another bell if you need me to check some wiring for you

[Peetypug 5]

right

 

is there a check list i can go through?

 

this is what i've checked

 

1, switched live to pin 14 (there is 12v)

2, double relay working (swapped with a known working one from my 306)

3, ecu is unlocked (was working in m@tts car)

 

what else do i check?

 

1, crank sensor

2,

3,

4,

[M@tt 77]

pete what wires have you connected up so far?

 

have you got a permananet live?

 

there should be a permanent live to double relay pins (2,6,11,12,15)

[Peetypug 5]

it may be worth mentioning that i replaced the loom that the fuel pump plugs are on

it was a known working one, i replaced it as the rear light loom had been butchered to fit lexus lights

it was off a 1.6 and all plugged in the same could it be that?

[Peetypug 5]

Slow down and think about it sensibly. If the double relay clicks when you whack the ignition on then the fuel pump should go on to prime...... If it dosent then check the fuel pump output from the double relay to see if its giving out 12v.

 

which wire is it Maxi?

[M@tt 77]

which wire is it Maxi?

 

pin5 from the double relay and that wire goes to the inertia switch then from the inertia switch to the fuel pump

Edited January 4, 2009 by M@tt

[Peetypug 5]

cheers matt

[Toddy 7]

1) Since the pump is not priming initially to get the correct fuel pressure this rules out the Crank Position Sensor.

 

2) I think it is most likely down to the fuel pump wiring.

 

Assuming its GTI6 the engine is from - Wire 120A from the Double relay then goes to the inertia switch, people normally bridge this connection which sends the 12V to wire 120 ( both thick white from memory)

 

You can check the fuel pump by disconnecting the double relay, have the ignition switched off and then bridge pins 5 & 8 this will give a permanent feed to the fuel pump wire and should run continously, if not check wiring with a continuity tester!

 

The output from the Double relay from PIN 5 is where the power for the fuel pump is from on both Xsara vts & GTI6.

 

Check the earths on the side of the head, just in case it is loose.

 

3) If its not that then you can test the injectors and coils by placing a LED between the terminals, you will see the LED flash if its receiving power.

 

4) Blame M@tt

 

HTH

Edited January 4, 2009 by Toddy

[Peetypug 5]

cheers toddy

 

i'll check the lot tomorrow and clean all the conections just to make sure

[Peetypug 5]

right

 

i've been out in the bloody cold for an hour or so

 

i've checked all the pins against the 205 brown plugs

 

i'm only getting readings from 3 pins, 5, 6 and 14

 

5 is connected to white 76 (on the 6 pin plug)

6 is connected to blue 46 (on the 6 pin plug)

14 is connected to red 2a (on the 9 pin plug)

 

are these correct?