Mi16 Rotor Cap

[jas-E 1]

Hey everyone..

 

Im soo close to getting my Mi16 conversion started - and sorted out most of the problems i had with reference to the forum. However I have one problem which i could find anything on the forum on.

 

When i bought the engine, it came with a Ducellier rotor cap (and i assume the rotor arm is the same brand). However 2 of the 4 pins inside the cap were broken off so i bought a new Beru Cap from GSF. But when i crank the engine i don't have any spark. I have checked the ignition amp and the coil and i have 12V right up to the king lead to the cap, but when the engine is cranking i have no spark at the plug and no volts on the HT leads.

 

I did a continuity test from the point where the king pin connects to the arm to the rotating edge and everything is fine, but when i do a continuity test from the king pin to any ht lead with the engine cranking i get nothing on the multimeter.

 

Is it possible to run the Ducellier arm with the Beru Cap? Or is there any better way of checking if i have any connection from the king pin to the HT Leads?

 

Thanks for all replies.

 

Jas

[Anthony 1,000]

If you put a spark plug on the end of the king lead, does it spark?

 

As far as I'm aware, there is only one type of Mi16 dizzy cap fitment, and just different brands/manufacturers that are all interchangeable.

[jas-E 1]

If you put a spark plug on the end of the king lead, does it spark?

 

As far as I'm aware, there is only one type of Mi16 dizzy cap fitment, and just different brands/manufacturers that are all interchangeable.

 

Hey Anthony,

 

I just put a spark plug at the end of the king lead and there is still no spark - but when checked with a multimeter there is 12V there..! What does that mean..?

 

I also removed the rotor arm and just manually put it in the rotor cap and there is a 1-2mm gap between the rotor arm connection to the points for each of the ht leads. Is that normal aswell or is my arm worn too much?

 

Thanks

[nick 3]

When you say they were broken off, what do you mean? Two of the post are a lot shorter than the other two anyway.

 

Nick

[mr_exe 1]

They should be interchangable but its interesting to note the Ducellier comes as a cap and arm. Never tried a Beru one, but I fitted an Intermotor cap and the car ran badly, which was sorted by fitted a Ducellier cap and arm.

[jas-E 1]

When you say they were broken off, what do you mean? Two of the post are a lot shorter than the other two anyway.

 

Nick

 

hey Nick,

 

2 of the 4 posts were definitely broken off so i got a rotor cap whic i woukd have done anyway as have compeletly rebuilt the engine and would be a shame not to get a new cap.

 

Been doing some research and i shouldnt be getting 12v at the king lead with the ignition turned on. There should be nothing there and about a couple of thousand volts when cranking! So i believe my Coil is knackered (as i have 12v at the plug going into the coil).

 

I have a standard 8v coil at home which im pretty sure works and believe the coils are the same for both Mi and standard 1.9 8v engine just have different mounting brackets. I'll try the older one at the weekend and see how it goes.

 

Thanks for all replies.

 

Cheers

 

Jas

[Phil H 16]

Mine did this and I traced it back to a broken wire that links the two fuel relays together. One rejoined, started instantly.

[jas-E 1]

Mine did this and I traced it back to a broken wire that links the two fuel relays together. One rejoined, started instantly.

 

Hey Phil,

 

So you were not getting any spark and when you connected the two wires linking the two fuel relays (?) it worked.

 

I thought there is only one fuel relay and one injector relay on the BX loom? Can you please give me a few more details on that bud..

 

cheers

 

Jas

[jas-E 1]

i just bought a new coil and fitted it but still have no spark. Can anyone please tell me how many volts im supposed to have in the plug going into the coil and the plug going into the ignition amplifier..?

 

I have 12V in both of them. Is that right?

[Anthony 1,000]

I suspect that you might be barking up the wrong tree here.

 

Check whether the fuel pump is running when cranking and whether the injectors are actually injecting fuel.

 

Almost every "no-spark" situation I've seen with Mi's has actually turned out to be no spark/injection/fuel, and is usually down to either a dead crank sensor or an issue with the ECU relay. If this is a new conversion that has never run, then there's lots more unknowns involved.

 

The favourite that I've seen on several conversions where the owner has been stumped - check that you've not plugged the crank sensor into the TPS connector and vice-versa - the plugs are identical and fairly close to each other. The result is no spark/injection because the ECU can't see the engine turning and thus has no timing reference. The crank sensor one is the one with the thicker harder to bend cable (because its shielded).

 

If it is purely a lack of spark, and fuel is being injected, then if you've swapped the coil I'd swap the ignition amp to rule that out - 8v one is identical. You should see +12v to certain pins on both the coil and ignition amp connector - don't have the info on which ones to hand though.

[jas-E 1]

Hey Anthony,

 

Thanks for your reply. With regards to your questions -

 

Check whether the fuel pump is running when cranking and whether the injectors are actually injecting fuel.

I have not removed the injectors to see if they are squirting fuel, but i do get 12V on cranking at the wire near the ECU and I can smell fuel when i took a spark plug out - i do intend to check them though.

 

Almost every "no-spark" situation I've seen with Mi's has actually turned out to be no spark/injection/fuel, and is usually down to either a dead crank sensor or an issue with the ECU relay.

I have checked the Crank Sensor (with reference to some advise from here) and i do get a signal from it on cranking so im pretty sure it works. The ECU relay? Is this one of the 2 relays in the BX loom? I checked both of them by wiring them directly to the battery and they both click.

 

check that you've not plugged the crank sensor into the TPS connector and vice-versa

I have swapped these and checked - still no joy unfortunately

 

swap the ignition amp to rule that out - 8v one is identical. You should see +12v to certain pins on both the coil and ignition amp connector - don't have the info on which ones to hand though.

I have swapped the ign amp with my 8V one, but still nothing.

 

I just went through the wiring diagram on the 405 haynes manual and simplified everything by drawing which wire should be going where between the ECU, Ign Amp and the Coil. I noticed some of my wires are not connected in the same order as in the manual. My connections between the Ign Amp and Coil are different. Could this be the problem at all..?

 

Thanks for your help mate.

 

Jas

Edited November 21, 2008 by jas-E

[GLPoomobile 958]

The Haynes manual is probably the same as on the CAPS program. I noticed my loom is different in places to the CAPS data, but it works. I need to send my diagram to Veero over the weekend so I could send it to you too if you like. I don't have the wires numbered, it's all just coloured as per my original 405 loom.

[jas-E 1]

The Haynes manual is probably the same as on the CAPS program. I noticed my loom is different in places to the CAPS data, but it works. I need to send my diagram to Veero over the weekend so I could send it to you too if you like. I don't have the wires numbered, it's all just coloured as per my original 405 loom.

Hey mate,

 

I would really appreciate it if you could as this is doing my head in now and would prefer to work against something as opposed to fighting in the dark..

 

I'll plug it in for now and check everything else works fine just so i can narrow it all down.

 

Post Edited to add: The Haynes Manual shows 4 wires coming out of the coil. One to the rev counter, A live, Earth and one to a 'supressor' and then to ground which i havent connected to anything. Any idea where this wire goes to? I seem to recall someone telling me not to worry about it.

 

Thanks

Edited November 21, 2008 by jas-E

[Phil H 16]

Hey Phil,

 

So you were not getting any spark and when you connected the two wires linking the two fuel relays (?) it worked.

 

I thought there is only one fuel relay and one injector relay on the BX loom? Can you please give me a few more details on that bud..

 

cheers

 

Jas

 

where the two fuel / injection whatever they are relays are located on the loom, there was a short wire piggy backed between the two relays. My coil had live on all four pins, but once reconnected it was ok again.

[jas-E 1]

where the two fuel / injection whatever they are relays are located on the loom, there was a short wire piggy backed between the two relays. My coil had live on all four pins, but once reconnected it was ok again.

 

Hey mate,

 

Yes i worked backwards and found that wire. Mine is connected ok. I have 12V on one of the pins but no spark!

 

There is a green wire with a black plastic cover coming out of pin 4 on my coil brown multiplug - in the Haynes manual it says this is supposed to be connected to a 'supressor' which then goes to an earth connection. Do you mind checking where you have connected yours? I hadn't connected mine to anything.

 

Cheers mate

 

Jas

[GLPoomobile 958]

Are you saying that with the ignition on, you only have voltage on 1 of the 4 pins on both relays?

 

There's no supressor on the coil wire. It goes back to one of the pins on the 6 pin brown plug on the dash and drives the tacho. It has an earth wire inside the shielding that is connected further down to the main earth to the gearbox.

 

Will send you my loom map soon.

[d-9 0]

Ignition module plugged in?

 

Try going through this diagnostics manual:

http://www.redneck-racing.co.uk/rnr/random...I-injection.pdf

 

You dont need to connect the wire that goes to the suppressor, mine isnt.

[jas-E 1]

Are you saying that with the ignition on, you only have voltage on 1 of the 4 pins on both relays?

 

With ignition on, I have 12v on pin 4 of the ignition amplifier and pin 3 of the coil 4pin plug. Both my relays are working and have power to them.

 

I have tried 3 different coils (one new that i bought yesterday) but still no spark. I have tried 2 ignition amplifiers also. I have checked that my crank sensor is also working. So its either my ECU thats buggered or somewhere down the line my wiring is messed (which im hoping it is) and will cross reference with your loom map.

 

I checked my wiring of the ignition amplifier and coil plugs against the haynes manual and the basic wires are all there but are on different pins. Not sure whether that makes a difference at all.

[jas-E 1]

Ignition module plugged in?

Ignition module?Ignition amplifier..yes plugged in and tried 2 different ones...

 

You dont need to connect the wire that goes to the suppressor, mine isnt.

Cheers mate - needed that..