Weight Difference Between Smr And Speedlines?

[gwyn_mi16 7]

Hello all, I have searched the site for the answers to the above topic without joy, may I appologise if it has already been covered but........

 

Does anyone know the difference in weight between a Speedline 1.9 GTI alloy and it's SMR replacement? Would the difference (if any) be detectable if they were fitted on the same axle? I.E some sort of imbalance in unsprung weight? Im having handling woes with my 205 and having replaced EVERY suspension component am at my wits end!

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gwyn

[iamjackiechan 0]

hi

ive got a set of both and when you pick them up you can tell that the speedline is

lighter but only by the slightest bit, not enough to make any difference to

the handling.

cheers

will

[GTI6BOY 29]

speedline is 1kg lighter

[gwyn_mi16 7]

Thanks for the reply's, I take it the 1kg difference is negligible then...?

[Baz 421]

0.9 of a kg, but yes, pretty negligible really...

[jimistdt 1]

How would you best describe the handling Gwyn?

[welshpug 1,623]

10% lighter a speedline is can easily be made up by using lighter tyres.

[Rupertfinch 6]

10% lighter a speedline is can easily be made up by using lighter tyres.

 

Or filling them with helium!

[gwyn_mi16 7]

Jimi,

 

I would describe the handling issue as totally weird! The car will negotiate left hand bends fine without drama, however show it a right hander and it will initially understeer on entry before dangerously wanting to snap into oversteer half way through!!! The steering fights you all the way and weights up horribly trying to pull you in the opposite direction. Needless to say it’s very unpredictable and dangerous!

 

The trouble being is that I bought the car in an unroadworthy condition. It was mint but needed mechanical renovation. So I ended up fitting at the front new black bilstein shocks with u/k lowering springs (around 30mm from Auto 5). Group N top mount doughnuts, new top mount bearings, new 309 wishbones with polybushes, re-con 309 driveshafts. New wheel bearings, new drop links, new trackrod ends, re-con steering rack, 309 antiroll bar with polybushes, top and bottom strut braces.

 

At the rear I fitted a (supposedly) re-con 309 beam lowered around 30mm, with the (rather soft crappy) black bilstein shocks. New group N rubber mounts and the harder (group A…?) poly mounts at the front of the beam. Both rear wheel bearings changed and stub axle’s.

 

I had a four wheel alignment and it drives straight and true with no knocks or bangs. It’s just awful in the bends!!! I had a 1.6 GTI a couple of years ago and it was sublime on standard susp, I just feel like ripping off all the ‘uprated’ bits and returning it to standard. I just don’t think I have the heart!

 

 

Any suggestions welcome, cheers, Gwyn.

[Stu 18]

Ive got more or less the exaxt same setup as you bar the rear shocks (im running Koni's) and the front ARB (in using the 205 item) and i think the handling is awesome!

 

The front could do with stiffening up a little on mine, but its pretty good imo.

 

Its been said that the 309 front ARB is well over the top for anything other than a big rear ARB, im guessing here, but say 23mm +

 

Try swapping back to the 205 one as a test.

[welshpug 1,623]

all new stuff but awful when turning, check that the steering rack is central when wheels are straight ahead.

 

measure from the track rod joint to the lock nut on the track rod on both sides.

[jackherer 543]

the (rather soft crappy) black bilstein shocks.

 

 

They're the problem, replace them even with used original dampers and you'll find its much better.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Hello all, I have searched the site for the answers to the above topic without joy, may I appologise if it has already been covered but........

 

Does anyone know the difference in weight between a Speedline 1.9 GTI alloy and it's SMR replacement?

 

There is a pinned topic with a list of the weighst of parts & the weight difference between the Speedline & SMR alolys is in the first post;

 

Italian made Speedline - 8 kg

French made SMR - 9.1 kg

Graham.

[jengis 0]

all new stuff but awful when turning, check that the steering rack is central when wheels are straight ahead.

 

measure from the track rod joint to the lock nut on the track rod on both sides.

 

 

As Welshpug said.

 

Unequal length track rods will cause the handling (especially turn-in response) to be markedly different between left and right turns, but still track straight and true.

 

Also agree that those rear bilsteins are awful. Get rid!

[gwyn_mi16 7]

Thank you all for the reply's, I will look into these suggestions over the weekend all being well (I have a sneaky feeling the front trackrod ends have been set pretty equally either side, my suspicions are drawn to some problem with the rear beam although I may be wrong....) The problem in diagnosing the fault is the fact everything was fitted to the car the same time, so it could litterally be anything!

 

Also, I have heard that using 306 gti6 rear dampers are a good upgrade over original items (albeit slight) so may change the bilsteins for them. Im also considering changing the front springs for eibachs and returning to the 205 front ARB. What are people's thoughts on the black Bilstein front struts...? Ultimately Im just after a good fast road setup without serious cost of coilovers etc...

 

Graham, my appologies I failed to spot that, thanks for the assistance. Still feeling my way around the forum!!

 

Gwyn

[jengis 0]

Also, I have heard that using 306 gti6 rear dampers are a good upgrade over original items (albeit slight) so may change the bilsteins for them. Im also considering changing the front springs for eibachs and returning to the 205 front ARB. What are people's thoughts on the black Bilstein front struts...?

 

The eibach springs and reverting to 205 ARB sounds sensible to me.

 

I ran a 306 rallye a couple of years ago on the "black" bilstein (OE replacement) dampers all round for a while, I fitted them because I thought they would be better than worn standard ones

 

In direct comparison, the fronts were ok but not stiff enough on rebound and no soft top-out which meant they made a loud "clunk" when driving over sharp crests at speed (I had standard springs). The rears were just terrible, very little damping at all. So much so I thought they may be faulty but others on 306 forum made similar judgements. I put the old ones back on after a week or so!

 

I have heard similar things about the 205 items, but not tried any.

 

I recently tried the black bilstein (from the 306) rears on the 205 and they were clearly just too soft. I now run the 205 on genuine 306 GTi-6 rear dampers. Haven't compared them to new 205 GTi ones, but I really like the GTI-6 ones - nicely stiff, especially bound direction, and suprising ride quality. I noted the rubber bush material on the GTi-6 ones was quite, well... rubbery! "Sports" dampers like avo's use hard plastics (pollybush style) and they feel harsh (and wore out quickly on the set of avo's I tried).

 

The only "upgrade" rear damper IMO would be the Bilstein yellow(b6). If I had not wasted money on a set of adjustable avo's I would have bought these. The GTi-6's are great but theres not much wrong with new standard 205 GTi dampers either, damping rates probably similar.

 

I have no experience of coilovers. I use the Bilstein yellow (b6) front strut on standard springs and rate them very highly. A quality product but expensive compared to standard pug stuff.

 

Out of interest, what leads you to suspect a beam problem?

[welshpug 1,623]

new standard 1.9 dampers ARE 5 door 306/sport level late306/gti6 dampers, 5206 K6

 

I have a set liberated from a 1.6 5 door 306!!

[jengis 0]

new standard 1.9 dampers ARE 5 door 306/sport level late306/gti6 dampers, 5206 K6

 

I have a set liberated from a 1.6 5 door 306!!

 

Ah, that explains it! When I was looking through parts numbers, that same "K6" was there for 1.9 gti and 2.0l 306's. At the same price. I just orderd "GTi-6" as I thought if there is a difference its likely to be the GTi-6 that stiffest.... now I know different.

 

If it aint broke... and all that!

[Baz 421]

They're certainly different size/shaped though!