Split Cv Boot

[GLPoomobile 958]

On thursday, I discovered a split in my OS outer CV boot. There was grease splattered about, so I was a bit bemused, as I couldn't understand how ANY of the boots down there could be split (new wishbone BJ boots, new droplinks, new rack boots, and the driveshafts boots were perfect).

 

I found an inch long split right next to the metal cable tie on the outside of the joint. It was parallel to the tie (so running around the boot rather than across it), and about 3 mm inboard of it.

 

Question 1:

Am I right in thinking this is an unusual failure point for a CV boot?

 

Now I know for a fact that this boot was perfect before it went in to have the tracking sorted. Anthony supplied me these 309 shafts, so a trusted source. I thoroughly degreased both shafts and painted them before fitting them, and made sure I checked every cm of the boots before the went on. They were perfect. The only mileage they did after fitting was 10 miles to the MOT and back (if they'd been split then, they WOULD have seen the grease and found the split, and at the very least given an advisory, if not a failure). And then another 20 miles to the place that did the tracking, and back.

 

Question 2:

Am I right in thinking that there is no way a split like that could have developed out of the blue, in such short mileage, under very easy conditions (I was driving like an old woman)?

 

So the logical conclusion for me is, it must have been damaged by the guy who adjusted my tracking.

 

Question 3:

Is there any likely explanation as to how an accident could have occurred while doing my tracking that could have caused this? Putting a spanner on the TRE locknut doesn't leave it making a nice convenient arc towards the split. Does anyone know if anything they use, like the laser things that they stick on the wheels, could have been fitted wrong and snagged the boot?

 

I need some feedback as I will be making a complaint. As this was discovered right before my Edinburgh trip, I had no time to fix it and couldn't call off the trip. So I made a really pathetic attempt at stopping more grease coming out of the split by putting PIB self amalagamating tape over it, which unsurprisingly did bugger all. The boot has now completely torn and I've probably wrecked the CV joint now.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

IMO its very unlikely that the boots would've been split whilst setting the tracking, like you say the spanner for loosening the track rod end locking nut shouldn't have been anywhere near the CV boot & if they were in as good condition as you say then catching it with the end of a spanner wouldn't have caused the split anyway.

 

When you say outside of the joint, do you mean at the fatter hub end or narow end by the shaft into the CV? Its more likely for them to split at the larger end of the boot simply because of the movement in the joint is amplified due to the size of the boot as it gets wider for the hub end of the joint.

 

The grease splatters out very quickly when the boot develops any hole so even the 25 miles you've done since then could easily have spit the grease out. It doesn't take much of the grease to make a real mess but if the boots were still intact for the MOT then the most they would do is isue an advisory. Any split in a boot is a failure point no matter how small imo.

 

The laser alignment tools hook onto the tyre & don't go over to the back of the rim at all so they cannot have caused any damage to the boot.

 

In hindsight, such a split like this can be temporarily fixed with superglue quite effectvely but imo if the boots were anything over two years old (or of unknown age) then they could've split at anytime.

 

Graham.

[Baz 421]

May just have been though!

 

You'll be surprised how inept some monkeys can be doing the simplest of tasks, one peanut muncher ruined a CV boot on my old/mum's 206 GTi when she had a wishbone changed (don't ask ) And of course it wasn't noticed at first, when returned they denied etc etc...

[GLPoomobile 958]

Graham - the split was on the big side of the boot. So you have the larger metal tie that holds that side of the boot in place, and the split was inboard of the tie about 3mm.

 

I know how quickly the grease gets out and makes a good old mess, so I know it couldn't have been present before the MOT.

 

I just seems like too much of a coincidence to me, that a boot which appeared to be in very good nick (no sign of ANY weakness and was still supple etc) could suddenly develop a split within 20 odd miles of light use.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Just did a quick search to remind myself of how to fit a stretchy CV boot (never done it before, but read about it), as I was thinking of doing this rather than renewing the driveshaft (the easier option).

 

By the sounds of it, I've had a lucky escape making it home with it in one piece! 963 miles, much hard acceleration, and some twisties thrown in. All with a boot looks like it has split around it's full circumference now.

 

I noticed when I got up to Edinburgh that I was getting some clunking from that side when pulling away, and sometimes at low speed. Didn't have these noises before and I've checked all bolts are tight downstairs. I'm guessing this CV will have thrown out pretty much all it's grease and will be practically dry, so is it likely the causes of the clunking? I've heard of dead CV joints making clicking noises and whining etc, but not clunking in a straight line pulling away, or going on/off throttle at low speed.

 

Am I right in thinking it's pointless to try and salvage this and to just get a new driveshaft (GKN from GSF)? I know it's the more expensive option but I can have it swapped in an hour, so it's actually the easier option anyway.

[Baz 421]

No, it may be worth re-packing with grease and replacing the boot, if you've caught it early enough, which is 50/50 given you may have done a good few miles on it, but it may be salvagable.

[Veero 1]

Probably be alright with a new boot and a regrease if it hasn't started vibrating/making knocking noises yet. Pass outer CV boot split on my 306 and I drove it for about 5000 miles before actually getting round to changing it. I had a new complete shaft but just didn't fit it due to having no spare time and it not being a problem. Once it started knocking bad on right turns I changed it.

 

If yours hasn't made any noises yet repack it and fit a new boot. Hour job if you've not done one before. It's funny, you see the cone and the boot and think NO fricking way is that going over that. But with enough lube it does

 

Unfortunately the chances of getting them to admit doing it are practically zero, especially if this was a little while ago. Worth trying though.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Veero

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The large end is where they go most often imo so its still not indication that a careless grease monkey caused it, especially when its slightly inside the wheel.

 

You get plenty of grease in the flexi boot kits imo so for the sake of £8 for a boot kit give it a try.

 

The driveshaft could last ages, when I drove about 250 miles with a split boot (after foolishly fitting a split boot kit) it was squealing like a stuck pig when I slowed on the motorway slip road & that didn't involve any twisties etc so if you managed 963 miles with the boot split & leaking then you could be lucky.

 

Graham.

[GLPoomobile 958]

No, on this occasion I'm afraid it's going to have to be a case of paying the premium and having some confidence in the end result. Too many times now I've had my fingers burned after trying to do something 'simple' and relatively cheap, only to cock it up and cost myself time and/or more money.

 

I've only got 2 weekends at my disposal before I make the next long trip. I know I can swap a driveshaft in an hour, so providing GSF give me the right one (and not a 205 shaft that some nobber off of here has cheekily swapped previously for a 309 shaft ) then I should be OK. By the time I've paid for the boot AND the cone tool it will have cost me a quarter of the cost of a replacement shaft, but with my luck I'll makes a balls up of replacing it and just lead to more stress, more rushing to get it sorted, and more expense. No, I'm done with all that for now thank you

 

2 weekends will sound like an eternity to you, but it's not a big enough comfort zone for me. If I wasn't going to Loch Ness, I'd happily take the cheaper option and give it a go replacing the boot.

 

Anyway, I've sent an email to the place very politely stating the facts as I see them and inviting them to respond with their view. I'm not expecting anything to come of it, as I have no proof it was them, but it would be interesting to see what they say nonetheless.

[Anthony 1,000]

By the time I've paid for the boot AND the cone tool it will have cost me a quarter of the cost of a replacement shaft

Cone tool? Why, as there's no need and a "normal" CV boot from the likes of ECP is fine:

 

1. Jack up car and remove wheel
   
2. Undo hubnut
   
3. Undo wishbone clamp bolt and seperate the hub carrier from the wishbone
   
4. Remove outer CV from the hub
   
5. Tap the outer CV off with a mallet (there's a spline fit between the shaft and the outer CV on 1.9 and 309 shafts)
   
6. Remove the split CV boot
   
7. Regrease
   
8. Refit new CV boot
   
9. Tap CV back onto the shaft
   
10. Secure boot
    
11. Redo steps 1-3 in reverse
    

Job done, takes 30 minutes, and less than a tenner

[GLPoomobile 958]

Yeah, it's easy when you know how, eh?

 

Nothing ever goes as easy as that first time around for me, hence why I struggled with a simple caliper dismantle and re-assembly. Like I said, I'd give it a go if I had the luxury of time, but I'm not going to put myself in the position, again, of trying to do something for the first time, have it go wrong, and end up stressing out about it. I've had enough of that recently.

[johny105_y2k 1]

honest it really is that easy.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I've got a spare 205 1.9 shaft so I'll have a practise run on that and see how it goes.

[GLPoomobile 958]

[*]Jack up car and remove wheel

[*]Undo hubnut

[*]Undo wishbone clamp bolt and seperate the hub carrier from the wishbone

[*]Remove outer CV from the hub

[*]Tap the outer CV off with a mallet (there's a spline fit between the shaft and the outer CV on 1.9 and 309 shafts)

[*]Remove the split CV boot

[*]Regrease

[*]Refit new CV boot

[*]Tap CV back onto the shaft

[*]Secure boot

[*]Redo steps 1-3 in reverse

Job done, takes 30 minutes, and less than a tenner

 

I honestly can't believe that I'm utterly retarded, but it's times like this that I feel I must be. I've taken the boot off my spare 1.9 shaft, so I can see inside the CV joint. What exactly do you mean by a spline fit? I can see what's there, but it's covered in grease, and I don't understand how it holds together. What am I supposed to tap? I've just twatted the f***ing arse out of it numerous times, with a rubber mallet, and it's done bugger all! I was hitting the edge of the CV joint outwards i.e. in line with the shaft, so as to try and knock the joint off of the end of the shaft.

 

I thought this was supposed to be easy? Glad I did a test run before going out and doing it on the car. Would not have been a happy bunny if this supposedly easy 30 minute job had turned into another 2 hour waste of time.

[large 33]

Come on GLP you of all people should know that “tap” in engineering speak = “hit the f*ck out of” .

[Anthony 1,000]

I honestly can't believe that I'm utterly retarded, but it's times like this that I feel I must be. I've taken the boot off my spare 1.9 shaft, so I can see inside the CV joint. What exactly do you mean by a spline fit? I can see what's there, but it's covered in grease, and I don't understand how it holds together. What am I supposed to tap? I've just twatted the f***ing arse out of it numerous times, with a rubber mallet, and it's done bugger all! I was hitting the edge of the CV joint outwards i.e. in line with the shaft, so as to try and knock the joint off of the end of the shaft.

I honestly wonder sometimes how you manage to make things so difficult, or are you really just the unluckiest man alive when it comes to anything going your way?

 

What do I mean by a spline fit? Well, that there's, errrmmm, a spline fitment between the shaft and CV, much like say between a torsion bar and a trailing arm. There's a circlip thing on the end of the shaft that you tap the CV over and off the end of the spline, but it's never taken much effort to remove - certainly I've never had to "tw*t the f**king a**e out of it" as you so delicately put it.

 

I've got a spare 1.9 driveshaft in the garage that has a split CV boot on it, so I'll knock that apart and post a couple of pictures to show you what I mean. If I'm feeling really enthusiastic and can get a replacement CV boot in time, I might even do a video showing the whole process (off the car) start to finish proving that it is easy and does only take a few minutes.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I was going to suggest that someone should do a guide to this (obviously not me since I can't even do the job ) but figured it wouldn't be likely to happen unless someone else was actually doing the job. If you do get around to it, that would be very helpful.

 

In cases such as this, trying to interpret written instructions about parts you are not familiar with is not always easy. Pictures or diagrams are best, but unfortunately even Haynes is no good for this job (they don't mention knocking the CV off, and instead recommend seperating the inner joint to slide the boot off).

 

Anthony, I also wonder how these things are always so challenging for me. I'm not stupid. And I don;t think it's bad luck either. If I was tackling these jobs with no guidance I'd think "hey ho, I'm obviously doing it wrong and have bitten off more than I can chew, better get an expert to take over". As brilliant as this forum is, I have long thought that it's all too common for the more technically adept to talk about jobs as if they are the easiest thing in the world, and forget how difficult it may be to someone who has never done it before. If someone asked me how to change a driveshaft I'd probably tell them it was an easy 1 hour job, but then I think back to 3 years ago when I wouldn;t have dreamed of tackling such a job. So I think you (and others, and me too) need to bare in mind that the jobs that are all so familiar to us and therefore take no time at all, can often be riddled with problems to someone who

1 - hasn't done it before

2 - might not have the mechanical skills/common sense to work around problems that occur.

 

I'm not having a dig at you or anybody else, and if anything I'm frustrated with myself for not being able to work it out.l

[Anthony 1,000]

I have always tried to cater for people who are less knowledgeable/experienced, and try to give step by step guides as I did above for you, and when there's common gotchas I'll point them out as well along with ways around them.

 

Anyway, I've phoned the local GSF and they've a couple of 1.9 GTi outer CV boot kits in stock, so I'm going to pick them up on my way home later and at some point over the weekend I'll sort you out a guide with pictures. You can't ask more than that from someone, can you?

[Super Josh 4]

Steve does the 205 shaft have a decent outer joint on it? If so, can't you just tap it off and install it on your 309 shaft? Or am I being a twat?

 

I used to change CV joints on my old MK1 Golf GTi all the time and found it much easier if you could hold the shaft in a decent vice first.

 

 

Josh

[skeggyrik 3]

If you were to have a split form in a boot it's most likely to happen next to the where the pinch point of clip sits, so I don't think that is an odd place for it to go.

If the shafts have been sat for a while the rubber boots may have hardened up slightly so as soon as they are on the car, the stretching and pulling at them begins, any weakness will soon result in a spit. It's just unlucky.

It's good that you spotted it early, admittedly it is shame you then had to do another 1000miles on it due to time constraints. Get it repacked with grease it may shut it up and save you the cash of a new shaft.

I have a Mkiv Golf as an everyday car (150pd) it had started to make some small noises. It had been coming for a while I was getting a grumble from passenger side, thought it might be bearing on the way out. It did it around roundabouts and mid speed right handers. A trip to Devon the other week and it started to get much worse, every right hander you would get the funny vibes. As I said I thought it was a bearing I never thought to have a look. By the time we got back from the trip the tell tale "clack clack clack" started as you pulled out of junctions with lock on. So it's the CV joint. Looked under car, dry grease everywhere, and a split boot. I tell myself that by the time it had started grumbling it was already knackered!

I had the rest of the week off to get some DIY done on the house and then a tip down to Dorset was planned, so I went round a few garages to see if I get it booked in. I never trust myself to be able to finish a job and leave the car working again (the 205 is second car so I do everything on that it doesn't matter if I can't get it done) Well I couldn't get it in anywhere before the weekend and we were supposed to be going to away so I took the plunge bought the bits and had a go on Thursday, worse case was that I put it back together still knackered and take it somewhere when I can get it in and we don’t go away or risk it and go anyway it's already knackered it might last. GKN CV joint kit was £90 odd from GSF, the Haynes manual was £20. Only potential issues were getting shaft out of the Hub and then getting CV joint off the end of the shaft. The way to do it was precisely as Anthony has mention above except on a golf three bolts hold ball joint to the wishbone so you undo those release the hub. It all came apart very easily, wacking the cv joint with mallett it moved off nicely, working on new cars is ace!! It was shagged. So I fitted the new one it and got it back together, problem sorted, happy girlfriend, saved us about £200 and we got to go away. I won't mention the stupid modern plastic (nylon) boots that come with the kit, they are nightmare to get sitting right. Took me 2 and half hours in end! The show stopper would have been if I couldn't get the CV joint off the shaft, same issue as GLP.

The point of my ramblings really are that some jobs are worth having a go at and this is definatley one of them. The other is that without the 205 and the learning experience of pulling it apart and rebuilding it, I would never have attempted it. If I were to have to do it again I would have it done within an hour. I also learnth that powerful golfs have expensive driveshafts! So a look under the car once in while is well worth it.

 

Rich

[GLPoomobile 958]

Josh, yes I could swap the joints over.......if I could get them off. Can't remember if my spare driveshaft was any good anyway.

 

Anthony, don't feel like you are obliged to go to all this trouble. I'm not having a personal dig at you where advice is concerned. You did give a clear bullet pointed guide, it's just that you were clear on all the bits I knew about already, and a bit vague on the actual knocking off of the joint. Maybe there is no more detail to be had - if it's really a case of literally tapping the joint off the shaft then there's obviously something wrong with mine.

 

Sorry if I've offended you by implying that you may have been misleading in your advice .

[welshpug 1,622]

its pretty much that simple really, though a rubber mallet isn't the ideal tool, a copper or hide mallet is, but a carefully used Lump hammer will suffice.

 

if the clip has moved a little they can be buggers to get off without force, that often leads to breaking the clip too.

[carbers205 1]

Steve they can be an arse to get off mate, I had a split boot on my 306, so having a spare shaft (but non ABS) in the garage I thought Id separate the joints on both shafts, swap the boot over and reassemble.

Got one joint split using a mallet and a drift in about 5 mins, but would the other split? Would it balls!

So its not ineptitude as far as I can see, just some shafts are a pain.

 

Andy

Edited October 24, 2008 by carbers205

[steve@cornwall 100]

Pull back old boot, hold shaft vertically by inboard end (gravity will hold it straight - if it's off-centre can be a c*nt to separate and damage the circlip) Knock the outer part of cv with a substantial hammer and you should be left with a shaft in your hand ( ) and a cv on the floor. Mind your feet..... Hammer technique is all important, too, strike it dead vertical with the flat face of hammer - more of a push, or you'll knock it off centre - hit off from vertical with the edge of the hammer may damage cv

[GLPoomobile 958]

I had another 'bash' at this, this afternoon, and got no further. I managed to miss GSF by an hour too (didn't realise they shut at 2pm on Sat) so can't do anything this weekend anyway.

 

So, I've just done some more research outside of the forum, and I came across an absolutely spot on guide, with pictures, which makes it utterly clear for even the most gormless wannabe mechanics (i.e ME!). I think some of you may be a little surprised when you see where this guide originates from

 

Guide

 

So after reading that, I decided to go at it again. This time no mercy would be spared and no mechanical sympathy shown (spare 205 driveshaft remember. Not really bothered about re-using or selling it).

 

I laid the shaft on the floor, put my foot over it (I don't have a vice). With both hands gripping the mallet, I swung at that joint for 5 minutes, turning the shaft a bit between hits, until finally.............................

 

 

....................it hadn't budged a mm! So I guess this one is staying firmly where it is.

 

 

I honestly wonder sometimes how you manage to make things so difficult, or are you really just the unluckiest man alive when it comes to anything going your way?

 

Well Anthony, I'm starting to think I must be very unlucky. Certainly in the last 3 years of working on my 205s, I'd say that in any job I do there is at least a 50% chance that it won't go as it should, even in the easiest of jobs.

 

So, as I only have 1 more weekend to do this, and MUST have confidence in success, I will revert back to the original plan of getting an exchange shaft from GSF. Once that's swapped and I'm happy the problem is sorted, I will then have a go at seperating the joint on the shaft I remove (anyone want to place bets on success or failure? ), and if I do get this one apart then I will replace the boot on it and keep the shaft as a spare, and then either forfeit my £25 exchange fee, or take my spare 205 shaft back as the exchange (something I'm not morally comfortable. Feels a bit naughty. But I know many of you buggers have done this before ).