Removing Front Arb

[gti_al 1]

I had a front end noise, so disconnected the ARB to try and confirm it was a droplink. It fixed the noise, and i'm noticing the car is turning in incredibly well, and seems to have much more grip

 

I've also noticed that it is incredibly taily, which is fun, but slow. I'm wondering how i can get a more acceptable balance without the ARB? I'm thinking coilovers with stiffer springs would be the easiest solution? I'm after an close to original specs as i can get

 

Alternatively, is there a thinner ARB that would provide a compromise? Or stagger the tyre widths or something... i'm open to suggestions. Has anyone else come up with a good setup?

[Sandy 189]

I won't have the front ARB anymore, if you get the right springs on the front and 309 front arms, it does to me, feel much better than with the ARB. There's a touch more roll, but it feels more direct and linear, with better turn in and traction for sure.

 

I'd suggest the Eibach progressive 106 GTi 50mm springs, E-20-70-001-01-20

[gti_al 1]

I won't have the front ARB anymore, if you get the right springs on the front and 309 front arms, it does to me, feel much better than with the ARB. There's a touch more roll, but it feels more direct and linear, with better turn in and traction for sure.

 

I'd suggest the Eibach progressive 106 GTi 50mm springs, E-20-70-001-01-20

 

I think the roll is actually a good thing. I have always felt the front end is less than ideal, and that my 405 worked better. It did roll, but it had much more grip

 

There are two problems with that post though. I like the ideas, but we got neither 309s or 106s here! I'll see what i can do with the springs though... the eibach guys are pretty good so might get me some. Are standard dampers, or at least damping rates ok with that setup? I'm struggling to get bilsteins at a reasonable price, so might have to stick with koni. It is a roadcar though, so i want to keep the ride ok

 

I can't believe how different it feels - it has transformed the car this week. I just feel when i want to push it through some quicker corners there will be too much oversteer. It is far more progressive though, so maybe i just need to be more brave!

Edited September 14, 2008 by gti_al

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Not directly responding to the question but a relevant point that if the car was fitted with an ARB from the factory, if at MOT time its not present it is a failure. Im sure I will get people arguing with me on this but it was something that I asked my mate who is a tester.

 

Maxi

[gti_al 1]

Not directly responding to the question but a relevant point that if the car was fitted with an ARB from the factory, if at MOT time its not present it is a failure. Im sure I will get people arguing with me on this but it was something that I asked my mate who is a tester.

 

Maxi

 

The ARB is the least of my problems if someone wants to question the originality of my car... I'm guessing sandy is in a similar position to me as well, given the originality of his front end... I think this avenue is worth exploring though, as it makes them so much nicer to drive on the road.

 

My sisters base model 205 doesn't have one, and i've always much prefered the way that felt. It is interesting that there hasn't been more talk about it here... i did a search but found very little

[Sandy 189]

It is indeed technically a fail for an ARB not to be present on a car on which it is standard and so if we need to get all pedantic about it, I'll further the red tape by saying that my findings refer to off road use vehicles . I could write you a list a long as your arm on MOT failure points like that that would apply to virtually all the modified and some standard cars on this forum, indeed the majority of them should probably technically be re-registered as rebuilt vehicles and Q-plated. A sensible experienced tester will assess the cars overall road worthiness and fail it or make advisories where he has cause for concern, jobsworth testers are another matter. I often get the distinct impression that you like to provoke an argument Maxi.

 

There are several people selling 309 arms on ebay, which might be able to send to Australia. Hopefully like you say, you can source the Eibachs by special order.

[Paintguy 0]

I often get the distinct impression that you like to provoke an argument Maxi.

Eh? Did we read the same post? :confused:

 

Although not 100% on topic (as he stated) I took it to be a bit of useful extra information for people to bear in mind if they were thinking about removing their own ARB's.

[gti_al 1]

Hopefully. I suspect i would be happy with the front end as it is, with a quicker rack... but i'll get to that. I am more interested in how the rear end has responded

 

I assume that the roll at the front is making rear/front weight transfers more severe when lifting? Are the 106 springs stiffer? Is the oversteer necessarily too extreme, or am i just being a big girly man...? I feel that it may be a bit lethal when pushed hard, but i am a bit new to all this

 

Thanks for the pointers though. I can always get some springs custom made if i can find the specs of the ones you recommend. Mine are fairly basic jamex 40mm ones, so i would imagine can be improved on

[Sandy 189]

The 106 Eibachs I suggested are a rising rate from about 80lb/inch to 205lb/inch, which seems to work well on this set up. Increasing the width slightly at the front with the 309 arms helps with stability, without harming the balance. I find this set up has a nice balance erring towards oversteer, but a more progress transition into oversteer that's easy to use and control than the sudden transition of the standard (or more seriously, tired standard) chassis.

 

Arguments or counterpoints? Through the vague medium of forum posting, it's hard to tell the difference. Forgive me if I seem to over react, I'm not perfect and certain objections irritate me.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Sandy

[Gregg 0]

On the MOT issue of removing the ARB, as a tester I wouldn't fail it unless you had left the droplinks dangling from the struts. Quite often low spec models don't have an ARB fitted but still have all the required mounting points (this is definetly the case on 106's) so why should a higher spec model fail for been the same? ARB removal is also a popular mod on Land Rovers that have them fitted, which not all do.

[Sandy 189]

Interesting info Gregg.

[gti_al 1]

The 106 Eibachs I suggested are a rising rate from about 80lb/inch to 205lb/inch, which seems to work well on this set up. Increasing the width slightly at the front with the 309 arms helps with stability, without harming the balance. I find this set up has a nice balance erring towards oversteer, but a more progress transition into oversteer that's easy to use and control than the sudden transition of the standard (or more seriously, tired standard) chassis.

 

Arguments or counterpoints? Through the vague medium of forum posting, it's hard to tell the difference. Forgive me if I seem to over react, I'm not perfect and certain objections irritate me.

 

I'll put the feelers out for the 309 stuff and continue to upgrade the suspention. I was just facinated at how such a small (and cheap) change made such a dramatic difference. I had the idea put in my head by Chris (casnell) when i did a few hundred kms in his rally 205 and felt like it wanted to swap ends... then i thought it was crazy, but when i tried it the other day it felt much better. It might just be me, but coming from a 405mi and mtec BMW, the 205 front end, and in particular turn in felt awful. I had attributed it largely to the manual rack, but this has made it feel much nicer

 

It is certainly far more progressive too, so i might just start with better tyres and new dampers. The location thing is a huge nusiance for that though... things are hard to get here and expensive, and i don't really expect people to send that stuff. I can get konis fairly easily and cheaply though. I'll see what the suspention guys can do on the springs. Will they lower a 205 50mm too?

 

Thanks again.

[Sandy 189]

They will only lower it about 30-40mm at the most. The front axle load is greater on the 106 and spring pan height possibly lower too. If you can get the Billies any way, especially the GroupN aka Challenge ones, they are well worth it IMO. Peter Lloyd Rallying ship worldwide http://peterlloydrallying.co.uk/shipping.p...1cb90dd60d93927 and i'm sure it would be worth asking Miles on here too.

[gti_al 1]

They will only lower it about 30-40mm at the most. The front axle load is greater on the 106 and spring pan height possibly lower too. If you can get the Billies any way, especially the GroupN aka Challenge ones, they are well worth it IMO. Peter Lloyd Rallying ship worldwide http://peterlloydrallying.co.uk/shipping.p...1cb90dd60d93927 and i'm sure it would be worth asking Miles on here too.

 

They look good, and not all that expensive. I'll price up some locally built coilovers that are running on a couple of cars, but the bilsteins seem like a proven formula. The springs sound good too, but if shipping will be an issue on both it may make the coilovers even more attractive.

 

Thanks again for all the pointers. I was a bit unsure about how viable it was to leave the arb off, but i think it is the way to go. Hopefully some better rubber will stick the back end down a bit too.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

It is indeed technically a fail for an ARB not to be present on a car on which it is standard and so if we need to get all pedantic about it, I'll further the red tape by saying that my findings refer to off road use vehicles . I could write you a list a long as your arm on MOT failure points like that that would apply to virtually all the modified and some standard cars on this forum, indeed the majority of them should probably technically be re-registered as rebuilt vehicles and Q-plated. A sensible experienced tester will assess the cars overall road worthiness and fail it or make advisories where he has cause for concern, jobsworth testers are another matter. I often get the distinct impression that you like to provoke an argument Maxi.

 

There are several people selling 309 arms on ebay, which might be able to send to Australia. Hopefully like you say, you can source the Eibachs by special order.

 

 

What the f uck is wrong with you????? I was only posting a bit of information I thought might be useful to the topic, I wasnt trying to pick an argument?????

[Ahl 4]

Hey, please refrain from posting offensive language - its unnecessary.

However, please also refrain from provoking arguments! (This includes you Sandy.)