Xu10 Sump Onto 1.9 Mi16

[Veero 1]

Right got an XU10 sump from the scrappy off a Citroen 2 litre 16v. I want to fit it to my alloy Mi16 block. I intend to lose the spacer plate and put the sump straight on. I've searched many threads but have seen some conflicting advice. I kept the 6mm allen bolts, I noticed some are different lengths but in the rain didn't note which came from where...

 

The sump from the scrappy had an aircon pump bolted to it (if that makes any difference).

 

Right on one thread I saw someone mention you need the oil pump from the Pug/Citroen as well? Will the Mi16 pump not fit or something? Same thread mentioned a baffle attached to the pump on the 406, does the Mi not have this and does it make a huge amount of difference?

 

I plan on just using some sealant (Loctite something-or-other) as I have had my Mi leak twice using a gasket on one face of the spacer and sealant on the other.

 

Also there is no provision for the oil temp sensor, how can I sort this? Will the temp sensor sender from the mi fit in the oil drain plug hole from the XU10 sump?

 

Thanks

Veero

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

This won't count as your definitive reply, but I understood the XU10 sump was instantly changeable with an XU9 jobbie. It should have a oil temp sensor fitting, but drilling and tapping a hole to screw one in should be a piece of piss.

 

I don't know why you don't want the spacer; it gives an extra 0.5/0.6 litre oil capacity which is a good thing on that engine when hard cornering is inticipated. But don't forget you need an extended oil pick up if you do use it. Using it would also negate the concern regarding longer bolts.

 

On that, surely a test fit is all that's required. It won't be difficult to shorten any you have if you need or even find replacements.

 

This doesn't seem like a difficult fix to me.

[Stu 18]

I run an XU10 sump on my Mi, but i kept the spacer, mainly because its a stiffener for the block. The fact you get a bit of extra capacity is good too.

 

If you dont use the spacer, your oil pump will be fine, if you do, you'll need to extend the pick up by the depth of the spacer.

 

as for the pins, they're M7, and the two long ones will need to be sought.

 

With regard to the oil temp sender provided you get the right one then yeah, it'll bolt into the sump in the drain hole.

 

A better option is to get it drilled and tapped, theres a blank in the front ready for it.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Stu

[Veero 1]

Ok yeah good point drilling and tapping would be easy enough, but Im lazy so Ill be looking for one that fits the sump plug

 

As for the spacer, I only wanted to run without it since having it in there provides another potential interface to leak. When I first rebuilt the engine one of the joints was seeping but by the time I noticed there was oil everywhere. I later had the engine out for a few bits and bobs and refitted the sump with absolute care. Fine wet and dry to take out any tiny imperfections in the mating surfaces etc. Gasket between one face and sealant on the other and it still seeped from the join somewhere. I just wanted to eliminate one join.

 

The XU10 sump is the same capacity as the XU9 sump + spacer right?

 

Regarding stiffening, have any blocks actually cracked or failed because someone hasn't used the spacer plate?

 

I'm tempted to run the sump on its own and see how it compares in terms of the oil pressure dropping on long lefts. I know it won't solve it but it should marginally aleviate it.

 

As for bolts, without spacer I can use the ones from the scrappy car, with spacer I can use my current Mi ones.

[Cameron 16]

Just lose the spacer, your block won't crack the block isn't stressed in that direction. Well, not any more than say a 1.6 XU and that gets along fine without it. That way you won't have to fork out for A - an extended pickup and B - an extra litre of oil every time you service it. Remember that if you get rid of the spacer you will have to remove the locating dowel along the back of the block. Mine wouldn't come out so I had to drill a hole in the sump flange.

 

As for oil pump, to get the full benefit of the baffled sump you should really get it, it has an extra baffle on it, not to mention gives better oil pressure. Also when you go back to the scrappie to get it, grab the drive sprocket and chain, you may even be lucky and have the later one which it keyed to the crank.

Oh, and I don't know if all XU10 sumps are the same, but on my 6 one the oil temp sender is at the front.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I asked about this before for the same reason - wanted to do away with stiffener plate so that I'd have one less surface to seal but most were sure it was needed. I reckon it is debatable how much stiffening it provides, after all it's only held on by bolts that are hand tight. My own sump already gets plenty of stress from the 20 ton aircon bolted to the front of it.

[Veero 1]

As for oil pump, to get the full benefit of the baffled sump you should really get it, it has an extra baffle on it, not to mention gives better oil pressure. Also when you go back to the scrappie to get it, grab the drive sprocket and chain, you may even be lucky and have the later one which it keyed to the crank.

Oh, and I don't know if all XU10 sumps are the same, but on my 6 one the oil temp sender is at the front.

 

Right I'm off to he scrappy to get the oil pump tomorrow. How do I get the chain and drive sprocket off without dismantling the whole engine and removing the crank?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You need to cut the cambelt, remove the drive wheel to get it all off, Sounds easy but the drive wheel bolt's can be a bi**h

[ifcho 0]

while we are on the topic, can you tell me how much oil, would a XU5 engine with XU10 sump, without spacer plate tak? 4, 4.5, 5 litres?

[Stu 18]

Cant comment on XU5, but id guess an XU9 would be the same, less the depth of the spacer.

 

My Mi, with a 13 row oil cooler, XU10 sump and spacer is just over 6litres i think, might be nearly 6.5.

[Anthony 1,000]

while we are on the topic, can you tell me how much oil, would a XU5 engine with XU10 sump, without spacer plate tak? 4, 4.5, 5 litres?

Pretty much the same as with the XU5 sump fitted, given that they're basically the same capacity. In my experience, it'll be around 4.5 litres (including filter) assuming you're doing an oil change, rather than first fill of a rebuilt engine (which typically is a little more)

[Veero 1]

Well they'd scrapped the Citroen the engine was in so had to take the whole sump off a 406, got the pump complete with baffle, chain guard, chain and drive sprocket and yes its a woodruff key driven one. So do the 1.9 Mi cranks and/or 1.9 8v cranks have the second woodruff key slot on the crank?

[Stu 18]

No, they rely on the crankshaft pulley being done up tight enough to 'sandwich' the sprocket between the crank and pulley.

 

Sounds dodgy, works fine in practice!

[Veero 1]

Ah so getting the crank driven sprocket was a waste of time if I can't retrofit it to the Mi or an 8v crank.

[Stu 18]

I think you can still use it fella, as im sure the centre hole is the same on both sprockets, it just wont have the

'keyed' drive as per the 406 setup.

[Cameron 16]

It should work fine, if I remember right the spacer on the 1.9 Mi is driven by the key (why??) so in theory the new sprocket will too. Not a waste to get it anyway as the sprocket is larger so you get better oil pressure at lower revs.

[Veero 1]

There's only 1 woodruff drive on the Mi16 crank but there were 2 separate ones on the 406. I see your point about a bigger sprocket driving the oil pump more with the same revs. Woudl it be worth getting a decent machine shop to mill another woodruff drive slot into the crank so it is 100% driven?

[Stu 18]

I personally wouldn't bother mate, the Mi doesn't use a key'd drive and works fine, so id just bolt it up as is! I meant to do this with mine but never got round to getting a sprocket and the right chain.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Stu

[welshpug 1,626]

IMO if the keyway is there and usable I''d use it if in the unfortunate event the crank pully bolt comes loose you'll still have oil pump drive...

[Veero 1]

IMO if the keyway is there and usable I''d use it if in the unfortunate event the crank pully bolt comes loose you'll still have oil pump drive...

Yeah but the Mi crank doesn't have a second one, hence me thinking about getting one machined into it

[Cameron 16]

Hmm, I can't remember weather my crank had 2 keyways or not. I'm pretty sure part of the key fits inside the spacer though, so that would be enough to drive the new all-in-one sprocket. Can anybody confirm that?

If you've got the engine in bits it would be rude not to get the keyway put in, can't see it costing much.

 

As for weather you need it or not, I wouldn't say so.. but it's just belt and braces really.

[Jer309GTi 3]

I've got hold of an XU10 sump to fit to my 1.9 Mi. I'm going to do away with the spacer plate, but I'm a bit confused about which bolts I'll need. From reading on the first page, I'll need 2 longer M7 bolts. Where do these fit on the sump and how long are they? Just want to get all the facts straight as I dont want to start fitting the sump and find out I've got the wrong bolts!

 

Cheers

[Veero 1]

I'm just gonna try the bolts I got with the sump, they're all the same length should be fine.

[Jer309GTi 3]

Ah right, I didnt get any bolts with the sump, I've only got the ones from my original sump. I'll try and get hold of a set of XU10 sump bolts then I reckon

[Veero 1]

They're a PITA to get hold of. Easiest bet is find a 2L 16v 406/Citroen in a breakers and attack it with the 6mm allen key to get them all. I believe the'yre M7 which is an awkward size to get elsewhere. In fact I think that is exactly why pug decided to use them on a car