Not Cranking

[jamiej 0]

I have hi jacked a thread below but without any answers, so i thought id start another

 

Essentially, for a while my car would not crank whilst starting, but then if i turned the key again, it would.

 

Now, it wont crank at all, i can hear the injectors and like a whistling noise but no cranking.

 

Ive looked in the haynes manual and have managed to work out that the starter is not drawing any power. How can i solve this ?, what leads/wires should I check. Can i check any without removing the inlet manifold ?

 

OR could the starter be faulty ? the lights dont dim or anything when i try to crank, thats how i worked out that the starter motor was not drawing power, although when turning the key, the glovebox light goes out ?

 

Any ideas, any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Have a search as it's been covered loads of times but to give you some pointers

 

1. Alarms

2. Ignition Switch

3. Starter Motor

4. Wiring

 

All the above are common area's due to age or bad installation's of Alarms which seem to be the main area's to look at

[jamiej 0]

Cheers Miles,

 

I have done a search but it doesnt look like any give any answers ? just lots of posts on the same problems.

Thanks for the list of what to look at but its not a whole lot of use to me.

1. the car does have an alarm which i do not use, its disconnected, i do have an immobiliser though, this works fine.

2. the ignition switch ? How do i check this, turning the key does do something, but it doesn't crank.

3. i have knocked the starter motor with a large piece of wood and nothing happens, so if its the starter, then it must be totally ruined, rather than just sticking. So, would this mean the starter is ok ?

4. wiring, i am convinced that it is the wiring, but i do not know where to look, do i need to remove the inlet manifold to get a good look, or is there any thing more accessable that would be worth checking.

 

Many thanks

 

Jamie

[jord294 87]

on the n/s of the slam panel, there's a little box.

 

one of the wires from there go to the positve clamp on the battery, but check all the other connections, especially the brown wire

[steve@cornwall 100]

on the n/s of the slam panel, there's a little box.

 

one of the wires from there go to the positve clamp on the battery, but check all the other connections, especially the brown wire

 

 

My money's on the blue wire to the starter solenoid either dropped off or bad connection. If tis wire gives problems further up the loom, it can be checked by fixing a wire direct to the solenoid and touching it to the + on the battery

[jamiej 0]

do i need to whip off the inlet manifold to get to the solenoid though, it all looks very tucked away ?

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[Rom 0]

For the starter to engage, it needs a feed to both terminals. Check that you have a feed at both (starter and solenoid) when cranking. A large screwdriver can be used to 'bridge' both terminals if needed.

 

If there is a feed at both when cranking, that would point to the starter / solenoid.

 

If there isnt a feed then your most likely looking at a wiring fault. The box on the wing is a good place ot start.

 

Basically, give a live to both terminals on the starter..and it should crank. Giving temp feeds will bypass all wiring and possible immobilser issues etc.

 

Ninja edit..

 

The solenoid can be reached, its just tucked away like you say. Try gettign to it from underneath, gives you a bit more room.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Rom

[steve@cornwall 100]

do i need to whip off the inlet manifold to get to the solenoid though, it all looks very tucked away ?

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

 

No, unless you have gorilla's hands! It's fiddly but possible to get to - If you have PAS the alternator will probably be in the way, so do it from underneath (more fddly)

[jamiej 0]

 

here are some pics of my wiring woes, any help would be very much appreciated

[jamiej 0]

Im meant to be seeing my missus today so i thought i'd have another go at the car before i see her.

 

So.. i took the excitation (i think) off the starter and tried to crank again, this time, exactly the same noise but it doesnt stop when i twist the key back to the ign on rest point.

Does that mean that the excitation is working as it should ?

 

next i guess is to see if the car will start with jump leads ? still not entirely sure how to "check the brown multiplug"

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[Fox 3]

My money's on the blue wire to the starter solenoid either dropped off or bad connection. If tis wire gives problems further up the loom, it can be checked by fixing a wire direct to the solenoid and touching it to the + on the battery

 

I'll second that, its done it twice to me!

 

You can just get to it, its on top of the starter, in the inlet manifold

[jamiej 0]

Is this blue wire, the one with a spade on the end that connects to the starter or am i barking up the wring tree.

 

This F ing car is driving me mad !

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Nothing looks instantly wrong in your pictures

Is this blue wire, the one with a spade on the end that connects to the starter or am i barking up the wring tree.

So.. i took the excitation (i think) off the starter and tried to crank again, this time, exactly the same noise but it doesnt stop when i twist the key back to the ign on rest point.

Does that mean that the excitation is working as it should ?

 

next i guess is to see if the car will start with jump leads ? still not entirely sure how to "check the brown multiplug"

The starter solenoid wire should be blue yes so if thats the one you disconected previously you had the right wire.

 

When it was disconnected the noise you heard was probably the fuel pump running. Are you sure the immobiliser is working 100% properly because quite often the cut the feed to the solenoid so it can't be started?

 

The brown multiplug will be underneath the AFM on top of the gearbox, checking it is basically looking to see what condition it is & if any of the wires have broken by it which is quite common.

 

Try running a seperate wire to the starter solenoid directly from the battery & see if it cranks. If it doesn't then either your battery is to low to crank it or the starter is dead.

 

Graham.

[jamiej 0]

Ok, well thanks for that graham, most helpful.

 

What i will do then is make a fly lead to go from the +ve on the battery to the spade on the starter, if it cranks, then i asssume im back to looking at my wiring, if not, then i will go for a replacement starter/battery. Would that be your recommended way of doing things.

 

Jamie

[jamiej 0]

Still no life from the fly lead from the battery to the spade on the starter, is that the right thing to do, i think i may invest in a multi meter and just see where i am getting power, i am beginning to think that it is the starter is broken but i dont want to jump to any conclusions.

[S13Nick 0]

mine used to do this, it was the spade connector on the starter motor

Edited August 5, 2008 by S13Nick

[jamiej 0]

Oki Doki,

 

Just been playing around with the starter motor battery and a volt meter.

 

There is about 12.1v going to the starter solenoid (big screw)

The battery is out putting 12.6V

The spade connector (off the solenoid) is getting 11.8V when the key is on the "crank" position.

The starter solenoid connection (big screw) is only getting around 9V when the key is turned to crank

 

So, does that mean that the battery is OK and the wiring to the solenoid is all as it should be ... Starter is broken

 

OR, have i proved nothing, and need to measure some more voltage readings to check the wiring.

 

The small brown connector by the box on the slam panel has 12.6V going to the middle connection and nothing going to the far left or right connections.

 

Think we may be getting somewhere ?

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[jamiej 0]

Any Ideas..really need some help?

[welshpug 1,626]

do you get a click?

 

all the wiring sounds ok, just a dead solenoid.

[M@tt 77]

sounds like starter is fooked mate

 

if as you've said you've used a fly lead stright from the battery to the connector the thin blue wire and spade usually go to and nothing happened then your starter is kaput!! as your battery volts look fine

Edited August 5, 2008 by M@tt

[jamiej 0]

not as such, there is no real click at all.

 

New starter then, did those voltage readings seem ok then ?

Edited August 5, 2008 by jamiej

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

The small brown connector by the box on the slam panel has 12.6V going to the middle connection and nothing going to the far left or right connections.

Thats as it shoud be, that connector is just teh test for the cooling famn. Bridge to one side from the middle & the fan will run at low speed, bridge the other way & it'll run high speed.

 

Battery voltage sounds a bit low at the starter on cranking but I've never measured it to check whats good or bad.

 

New starter time.

 

Graham.