Hypoythetical Question Regarding Mi16 Afm

[les3002 0]

Hi,

 

I have a friend who owns a mi16 converted 309, basically he is changing (or thinking of changing) the standard management from the mi16 to another management, either emerald or he was mentioning s16 management (mp3.2 i think)?

 

What he has been told is that by doing this and removing the afm he will gain 15-20bhp! Personally i dont believe a word of it, ive seen mi16's on bodies and mappable management not make 20bhp over standard as i don't believe on a standard engine the afm is that much of a restriction, and also that just changing the management will result in the car not driving as nice i reckon, as surely some guy cant map the car in a couple of hours as well as peugeot mapped it originally.

 

As for the s16 management he has also been told that this can be used without the map sensor and just mapped via rpm and tps, is this correct i would have thought it better to retain the map sensor.

 

For me there doesn't seem to be any point in doing this unless at least going to bodies or bike carbs and i wouldnt bother with the s16 ecu at all, what are your views on this guys so i can talk him out of wasting his time?

[James_R 3]

Well considering that the Mi with just a cam in it cam make abother 15BHP still with the std AFM I'd say as std it's not restricitve.

 

 

The s16 management would be full of issues due to the AVAC and it does have a map sensor without it would over fuel at low load throttle positions, or maybe assume one sensor is buggered and do somethign wierd.

 

Seems pointless really.

[kyepan 291]

from what i remember reading its wide open above 4000rpm..

 

if you really want to prove it either way, try testing it like this..

 

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0629/article.html?popularArticle.

 

cheers

 

J

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Surely MP3.1 would be better anyway. No ACAV and a better coil set up.

[welshpug 1,627]

I don't know if anyone has made a direct comparison on the same engine, without improving another part of the system at the same time.

 

I.E the Mi16 has mapped ignition already, in which case moving to a setup without the AFM as you say, would be rather optimistic to gain 15-20 bhp IMO

 

I'm unsure if the S16 management would be that much of an improvement over the 1.9 Mi16 system, but it can be mapped very well, dont forget that Peugeot would have given it a "safe" map, to suit every single S16 engine built, not simply to get the best out of the engine, in which case its perfectly feasible for someone to improve on the stock map on a healthy engine.

 

It would be a tad silly to fit the complete system, just leave the ACAV bits off and run a Coilpack bolted to the end of the head.

 

It has been proven however that moving from AFM and Dizzy to Coilpack and Map sensor can give very good gains, especially on turbocharged engines.

 

nicely proven here;

 

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_projects_TT205.html

 

I've moved from AFM and Dizzy to Coilpack and MAP, and I have to say the car does drive a lot nicer and "feels" far quicker and more willing to rev, but I have yet to get it back onto the RR fr a before and after comparison, I hope to do so later this year when PSOOC visit Powerstation.

Edited July 31, 2008 by welshpug

[jackherer 543]

I'm sure Emerald tried one of their ECUs on their BX 16v with no gains until they fitted TBs.

 

I can't find any reference to their BX pre TBs on their site but I did find this pic which seems to show it with no AFM - http://www.emeraldm3d.com/citbx1.html

[taffycrook 2]

Now that pic has just helped me loads.

 

But back on topic, the std injectors are the limiting factor on the std injection system.

This is the only reason to change as its not easy to go up in injector size with this system.

I have built 180bhp engines on the afm and this is close to if not the limit of std injectors.

You could increase the fuel pressure to get a bit more but it would effect running at lower loads and speeds.

 

Tell your mate to save time and energy and stick with what he's got. He may gain 15-20 by fitting cams and timing them in correctly but not by removing the AFM.

[les3002 0]

Cheers guys, pretty much confirmed what i thought.