Rupertfinch 6 Posted June 2, 2008 Good evening. Bit of an issue this evening - went to attempt to rebuild up front suspension unit, to find that it didn't all fit together very well. the main problem appears to how the spring fits into the 'pan' of the shock (if that makes sense). It then forces the spring to lean and hence I can't hold the rest together to get it up into the suspension 'turret'. Hopefully this will be of some use Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted June 2, 2008 yeah that's quite normal, the spring pan isn't perpendicular to the strut, neither is the top mount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rupertfinch 6 Posted June 2, 2008 So it's just meant to be a bugger to put back in? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted June 2, 2008 yep they usually are! you need to compress the spring a fair bit, get the top mount assembly on, get the nut on then release the pressure on the spring and make sure it sits properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rupertfinch 6 Posted June 2, 2008 Now, this then raises another problem. If I compress the springs further (got about another 4-5cm to go), then I won't be able to get the rod up through the 'cup and washer' in the centre of the top mount and therefore won't be able to put the nut on to it because the spring compressors are in the way. Have I got gay spring compressors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted June 2, 2008 yes I've got 2 sets one of which is like yours (Draper branded ones mine are) I used them the other way up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rupertfinch 6 Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) Problem is that if I use them the other way up, then I won't be able to release the compression once I have them seated on tghe strut top and in the hub, as I can't get access to them to unwind (or can I?) - bloody sealey tools! Many thanks Welshpug, your responses are greatly appreciated. Edited June 2, 2008 by Rupertfinch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) 6" extension bar I used (before fitting the strut to the cam I must add) I see what you're trying to do now (hubs still attached to the driveshafts and wishbones right?) you should be able to get them located without the springs compressed, just. No probs, I also find spring compressors highly frustrating!! Edited June 2, 2008 by welshpug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars Posted June 2, 2008 All very familiar to me too Rupert! Even worse on the 405 where those style of compressors won't fit in the suspension tunnel thingy in the arch. And 405 springs won't allow you to bung the strut into he hub unless they are compressed loads or unless you get the wishbone detached from the hub. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pugnut 9 1 Cars Posted June 2, 2008 i cant imagine trying to get a spring off with the strut still on the car attached to the hub strut off every time for me . the arb lug is perfect for jamming in a vice and i bet its quicker too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnsimister 10 Posted June 2, 2008 The spring sits at an angle to reduce the side forces on the strut's piston rod. The idea is that an imaginary line through the centre of the spring passes through the approximate centre of the tyre's contact patch. If the spring was on the same axis as the strut, the strut body would try to tip as it moved because the hub's attachment point is off to one side. The resulting side force on the piston rod would make it tend to stick before suddenly letting go ('stiction'), which would make for a jerkier ride. It's the reason why so-called coilover struts seem a wrongheaded idea to me. Peugeot (and the other carmakers) go to the trouble of alleviating the stiction, and the coilover makers ignore their efforts completely. Why have a tiny coil spring wrapped around a strut when there's space for a proper one? When a car uses a coilover spring/damper unit with a double-wishbone suspension it's another matter, because then there are no bending loads on the damper. John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars Posted June 2, 2008 i cant imagine trying to get a spring off with the strut still on the car attached to the hub Eh? who said to do it that way? Surely that's not possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rupertfinch 6 Posted June 3, 2008 Pugnut - not quite sure what you are getting at hence I understand Kriskarrera's confusion. Surely that would be an impossible feat! Anyway - am I now in the situation where I have to potentially remove the hub? Then refit the entire strut/spring combo with hub carrier now secured to the bottom of the strut? This could potentially be arse or could be nature's way of telling me that I could also deal with that suspect hub carrier that may/may not be ovalled (play between the brand new wishbones and hub was picked up at MOT). Anyone got a spare passenger side hub? Or can someone remind me which other pug/citroen hub carriers will do the job? 1.6 with 1.9 abs (now de-abs'd setup). Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamP 0 Posted June 3, 2008 The spring sits at an angle to reduce the side forces on the strut's piston rod. The idea is that an imaginary line through the centre of the spring passes through the approximate centre of the tyre's contact patch. If the spring was on the same axis as the strut, the strut body would try to tip as it moved because the hub's attachment point is off to one side. The resulting side force on the piston rod would make it tend to stick before suddenly letting go ('stiction'), which would make for a jerkier ride. It's the reason why so-called coilover struts seem a wrongheaded idea to me. Peugeot (and the other carmakers) go to the trouble of alleviating the stiction, and the coilover makers ignore their efforts completely. Why have a tiny coil spring wrapped around a strut when there's space for a proper one? When a car uses a coilover spring/damper unit with a double-wishbone suspension it's another matter, because then there are no bending loads on the damper. John I've never heard of this stiction, but i'm guessing that it's only really a problem when you have soft springs. With coilies you usually have pretty stiff springs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pugnut 9 1 Cars Posted June 3, 2008 All very familiar to me too Rupert! Even worse on the 405 where those style of compressors won't fit in the suspension tunnel thingy in the arch. And 405 springs won't allow you to bung the strut into he hub unless they are compressed loads or unless you get the wishbone detached from the hub. appologies for missreading Kris's post . , i'll never mix alcohol and internet forums again honest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fenton 1,526 Posted June 3, 2008 I'm sure I once read that (one of) the reasons for the slanted springs was so the spring rate increases slightly as the car rolls in cornering? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rippthrough 98 Posted June 3, 2008 I've never heard of this stiction, but i'm guessing that it's only really a problem when you have soft springs. With coilies you usually have pretty stiff springs. It's a problem so long as you are using struts, there's no real way around it. The upside with coilovers is they normally have a far bigger piston/shaft, with low friction seals to reduce the stiction. Of course, if you're on coilovers, you've probably got eccentric mounts to get as much camber as you can, which helps a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tom_m 0 Posted June 4, 2008 Of course, if you're on coilovers, you've probably got eccentric mounts to get as much camber as you can, which helps a little. helps add to the bending moment on the struts yeah! you know what they same life's a compromise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
