bren_1.3 1 Posted February 9, 2008 Can anyone tell me whats acceptable on the liner protusion above the block face on a 1300?? is the haynes manual figure correct? thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted February 9, 2008 cant see why haynes would be incorrect, is it the 1293cc engine or the 1360? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bren_1.3 1 Posted February 9, 2008 tis the 1294cc engine. i dont have the book to hand either, i was hoping someone might know the measurement! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) hehe, clearance stated for all petrol TU engines is 0.03 to 0.10mm, with a maximum difference of 0.05 Edited February 9, 2008 by welshpug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uncle buck 0 Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) I've just done the head gasket on a Xsara 1.4 TU engine...the Haynes quotes a 0.03 - 0.10 liner protrusion. No way could I get this....my measurement was more in the region of 0.25 -035 However I ended up replacing the liner seals as the liners got disrupted as I forgot to replace the liner clamp I had made when I turned the engine over The liner clamp is nothing more than a length of wood with a hole in each end that can be bolted diagonally over the block using the head bolts to keep the liners pressed down while the engine is turned. While the liners were out I re-fitted them with no seals fitted & re-measured....the result was a measurement of 0.08 ! I now believe that the liner protrusion is meant to be carried out with no seals fitted...a fact that the Haynes manual neglects to mention ! But ....I would not advise ripping out the old seals just to take a measurement, as the new sesls cost close to £6 each (£24 a set) If it ain't broke don't fix it ! Regards & good luck. Edited February 10, 2008 by uncle buck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) I would be more inclined to change them whatever the cost, I know of a few engine rebuilds recently that have left these alone only to have them leak within weeks. they actually aren't that expensive, they're a similar size to a Mercedes Benz 814 series 7.5ton rear hub seal, which cost £8 each. you have to replace the seal whenever the hub is removed, which you have to do when you replace the discs, which invariably last about 100k miles or 3 years. Edited February 10, 2008 by welshpug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted February 10, 2008 I strongly advise that if you don't have 0.05-0.08mm across all four (without seals), carry out remedial work to make it so. measure with the liners clamped as mentioned, they will read high just placed in there. If you ignore this, your ass may well get bitten! I got caught out by this recently (using brand new liners,checked unclamped) and it's a bitter and lengthly process to put right once it's back in the car. BE SURE!! Peugeot describe the seals as "ensuring" the sealing process, in other words, the metal on metal should provide the seal, the flexible seals are there as a secondary seal. The are easily disturbed once used though, so I recommend replacing them and cleaning the liner/block mating faces at a given opportunity. Again, assuming they'll be alright is a proper lottery with potentially miserable consequences! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uncle buck 0 Posted February 10, 2008 I would be more inclined to change them whatever the cost, I know of a few engine rebuilds recently that have left these alone only to have them leak within weeks. Yeah I suppose you're right about replacing the seals...nothing worse than having to do the job again for the sake of £24, but it makes doing a head gasket a bit of a mess on. they actually aren't that expensive..... They are for what they are....they should only be penny's each....the cardboard they come on probably cost more than the seal to produce. I wonder if there is an after market seal available....maybe from a company that specialises in O rings seals etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted February 10, 2008 oddly they are much cheaper for the XU, and much more detailed in specification. XU - CYLD LINER SEAL DIAM 85,8 X 88,3 X 1,25 011278 2.66 GBP TU -CYLD LINER SEAL DIAM 77,2 011276 5.08 GBP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uncle buck 0 Posted February 10, 2008 I strongly advise that if you don't have 0.05-0.08mm across all four (without seals), carry out remedial work to make it so. I assume this would just be a case of having a skim taken off the top of each liner to bring them into spec? Peugeot describe the seals as "ensuring" the sealing process, in other words, the metal on metal should provide the seal, the flexible seals are there as a secondary seal. The are easily disturbed once used though, so I recommend replacing them and cleaning the liner/block mating faces at a given opportunity. Again, assuming they'll be alright is a proper lottery with potentially miserable consequences! When I was trying to get hold of the seals, Citroen had none in stock but could get me them for the next day....I decided to try my local Pug dealer to see if they had any to save me a days wait....the Pug parts guy told me that they had never ever had any of the seals in stock or had to order any...apparently he could tell this from the computer system. As the parts dept supply the workshop....it makes you wonder if Pug don't just clag a fillet of sealer around the bottom of the liner ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted February 10, 2008 what you'll probably find is that most dealers don't rebuild engines inhouse! the time involved in rebuilding and engine to Peugeot costs as much as fitting a new engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uncle buck 0 Posted February 10, 2008 The dealers do head gaskets though so you would think at some point they would need some seals.....I'd like to bet they use some sort of sealer which I'm sure would work, as like sandy described the metal on metal should provide the seal....the O ring is there as a back up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted February 10, 2008 I assume this would just be a case of having a skim taken off the top of each liner to bring them into spec? It's usual for the liners to sit too low, which requires the block to be decked down. If the liners are too high, it's probably due to corrosion of the seat where the liner sits in the block, which needs to be cleaned to ensure a true seal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bren_1.3 1 Posted February 10, 2008 how do i take a proper measurement? is it just a case of using feeler blades across the top of the block face? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 43 Posted February 10, 2008 You need a DTI with a good magnetic stand to make proper measurements really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted February 10, 2008 A solid flat edge and feeler blades is fine. A DTI is tricky I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bren_1.3 1 Posted February 10, 2008 i get 0.04mm across the board, with no difference in height between them, and with seals on...this is ok then? welsh pug quotes 0.03 - 0.10.....so within tolerance yes? or are we saying no to this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted February 11, 2008 It's your call! If it's all stripped down, I'd be tempted to get the block surface ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joe1joe 3 Posted February 11, 2008 well not much help realy, but when i done a strip down on mine i found the liner protusion was too much so i thought that the liners had moved as had the head off, so replaced the seals and ensured that the surfaces were perfect for the seals to sit on, (as the tolerances are so low) and put the new seals in and the readings were worse, but when you apply pressure the liner moves down, so u must have to measure the liners with no seals as i put the head on and the liners push the seals down, and it sealed with no problems but the haynes didnt say not to measure the liners without the seals? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted February 11, 2008 You definitely have to measure without seals in place! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
