406 1.8 16v Engines

[McPikie 0]

Reet, the 1.6 8v produces 115bhp, however, I want MORE.

 

There are 5 x 406's in my local breakers, all with 1.8 16v engines, so I was guessing they were going to be 135bhp or thereabouts

 

 

 

 

 

108bhp!! WHY???

 

Renaults made 137bhp without breaking a sweat. Is it the management that restricts them?

[Sandy 189]

They're more like 125bhp really, but that's not the whole story, it's a very strong and flexible feeling engine to drive. It's "restricted" by a crap inlet manifold and uber mild cams.

[ashley peddle 3]

so what sort of power would you be talking with some proper induction/management/cams sandy?

[Sandy 189]

With a GTi6 inlet/exhaust and cams, around 145-150bhp, then if you sort out the inlet ports a bit, which are necked down alot and rough shaped compared to other XU 16vs, probably another 10bhp or so. I ran TB's and GTi6 cams on an otherwise standard one in my Goodwood, I never rolling roaded it or it mapped it fully for that matter, but the acceleration times clearly indicated around 150-155bhp. It sounded Grrrr-eat too!

 

Here's the video again:

http://df11.dot5hosting.com/~noboostc/temp.../GoodyXU7J4.wmv

[whizzer71 0]

How about one of these engines with a 6' head + manifolds on it along with reground cams what kind of power could you expect to extract from that,arent they all alloy as well,helps a bit on the weight front ?

 

[welshpug 1,622]

wouldn't need reground cams, use the gti6 ones.

 

not sure ion this one but I think the gti6 ports may be a bit TOO big, better to stick with the XU7 and port it.

 

and yes they are quite bit lighter, IIRC about the same as a 1.9 8v

 

these are quite plentiful too, and don't suffer from the oil problems that the Mi heads do,

 

there's already a lot of info on the forum though.

[McPikie 0]

Hmmm, so my shun of these engines was incorrect then, lol

 

So, for the conversion, it's basically 1.8 16v block, head and loom, then GTi-6 inlet, exhaust and cams??

[welshpug 1,622]

quite simply yeah, though you might want different management as it might struggle with the extra flow! 6 injectors would be an idea though I'm unsure what the 1.8 runs, cant imagine they be much cop for much more power :lol:I haven't yet seen wether the original system can be mapped, though I know for sure that the gti6 management can be mapped, it would need one extra sensor to be fitted IIRC.oh, simple answer, Megasquirt

[ashley peddle 3]

when i said 'proper induction' i meant throttle boddies so going by your post above - one of these engines with tb's, lairy cams, a bit of porting and proper management youd be pushing the 180ish mark? but i guess if your going that far then you may as well go for a 6' engine to start with and hit the 200+ club

[McPikie 0]

quite simply yeah, though you might want different management as it might struggle with the extra flow! 6 injectors would be an idea though I'm unsure what the 1.8 runs, cant imagine they be much cop for much more power :lol:I haven't yet seen wether the original system can be mapped, though I know for sure that the gti6 management can be mapped, it would need one extra sensor to be fitted IIRC.oh, simple answer, Megasquirt

I am liking the sounds of this very much and I am pretty sure it would be mappable.

 

Hmmmm, think I will take a trip to the scrappers tommorrow.

 

Even base spec, it's still going to be 1.9 power with less problems and a base for some good upgrades

[McPikie 0]

but i guess if your going that far then you may as well go for a 6' engine to start with and hit the 200+ club

Price difference?

 

Availability?

 

I think the 1.8 sounds like a good budget motor

[ashley peddle 3]

Price difference?

 

Availability?

 

I think the 1.8 sounds like a good budget motor

 

 

thats true - the gti6 engine is probably a few hundred quid more to buy but they arnt hard to get hold of - plenty of them about on forums/ebay etc... and for the extra £200 outlay you could see maybe 20bhp more... where else can you see 20bhp from that sort of money? just an idea...

[danpug 1]

The 1.8 is a good whack lighter than the 6 engine, some people don't care but other people (sandy included iirc) say the weight is noticable.

[Sloppy 0]

I had one of these engines from a car i got to break which was writted on, it had just touched 90k and it was so hard to sell, they are very reliable in std form and therefore dont really go wrong, i took me the best part of a year to sell it and i let if go for £100, and thaT WAS TO A PLANK who never topped his car up with oil!

 

That was a while ago too!

 

I think it would be a good starting point as siad there all ali and even with simple (ish) mods like cams inelt and exhaust manifold they would be much more lively and they are plentyfull VERY plentyfull so even if you blow it up every year you can get a new one!

 

Makes sense to start with this engine i would say, never really considered it ither although i did hear roumers about fitting gti cams.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Sloppy

[Sandy 189]

The Gti6 head has ports arguably too big for the GTi6, I'm sure it would peak quite well on the XU7, but the mid range and flexibility is likely to be a bit lack lustre.

 

I'm in the process of building a race 1.8 16v for a 306 and soon i'll be doing a lower spec one for my old Rallye, using a lightly ported 2.0 406 head, GTi6 springs etc and Catcam inlet cam/Gti6 exhaust cam on 45mm TBs, DTA etc. It won't be a massively expensive built and will hopefully be a very enjoyable engine to use. The fizzy but still quite grunty nature of a modified 1.8 16v is unlike any other XU 16v engine, its light too and feels light under foot. If you want to keep the 205 sharp handling and very alert, it makes sense. It's running a much lower stress level than Mi16s especially and has better oil control as mentioned. I ran my Goodwood pretty hard around Castle Combe with the SPA gauge and it didn't show a warning once.

[ashley peddle 3]

I ran my Goodwood pretty hard around Castle Combe with the SPA gauge and it didn't show a warning once.

 

was that mapped at the time? as i was behind you for a bit of that session in my old 205...

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I had one of these engines from a car i got to break which was writted on, it had just touched 90k and it was so hard to sell, they are very reliable in std form and therefore dont really go wrong, i took me the best part of a year to sell it and i let if go for £100, and thaT WAS TO A PLANK who never topped his car up with oil!

 

If you get any more like that let me know, I asked about one of these engines from a 406 that had done either 130k or another with 150k & they said £250 each. That shocked me as the scrappers they were in is usually cheap, I paid £50 for a complete XU10 engine that'd done 110k.

 

I've got a GTi-6 loom & ecu that I'll use if I come across one of these engines for the right price & I'll gt some GTi-6 cams & a head sorted.

 

Graham.

[Sandy 189]

Only what I'd done on the road, not really "refined"!

 

I had a Nova behind me for much of one session displaying comedy understeer, I kept pulling over on the straights thinking he wanted to get past; he came over to speak to me after, before i could apologise he asked what engine I was running... he was using a 2.0 16v! He didn't have the grunt to pass apprently :S

[McPikie 0]

Well, this is looking more promising as the post lengthens, lol

 

Although I have just been on to said breakers and been offered a 60k (proven) 306 XSi 16v lump, loom and box for £300 all in, already removed

[welshpug 1,622]

XSi wil be the 2.0, all 1.8's were XS badged.

[Sandy 189]

Sounds like a decent deal, if you could get them to unlock the ECU and send it all uncut, you'll be larfing.

[Mattsav 1]

The 1800 is the only head I have flow tested which has the same inlet flow as the exhaust.

The ports are smaller and it has a horrible triangle shape just below the valve seat which can only be there to reduce power.

[welshpug 1,622]

The 1800 is the only head I have flow tested which has the same inlet flow as the exhaust.

 

The ports are smaller and it has a horrible triangle shape just below the valve seat which can only be there to reduce power.

 

 

Enlighten us if you can Matt (or anyone else) is the first point good or bad?

 

The second point could be solved with a bit of simple shaping I guess but that means having the head off of course.

 

I think if I were to ever build a 16v engine in a 205 or 309 it'd be this one.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I was only offered one of these engines the other week for £50. I made a call to Anthony and he said pretty much what's been said here in that it has solid internals, but is fairly lame.

 

The money you'd have to shell out for the bits to get even close to it being nearly a '6 (as mentioned here head/cams/inlet & exhaust) means you might as well buy a '6 engine straight off.

 

£50 to sell off the bits is all I'd do. I don't think it's worth the effort if you've gotta lift it out of the car as well. Sorry, but I guess we thought nearly the same thing.

Edited March 7, 2008 by DrSarty

[danpug 1]

As in the other thread though, you can just bolt on (not ideal in sandy's opinion but surely better than the std head) a gti6 head and use both manifolds. This gets rid of the restricting factors. Obviously it wouldn't run on standard mangement though.