S16 Conversion Help Please

[ericdean 0]

Hello folks

 

My brother has just bought a project car for me to play with while I recover from 2 broken ankles so progress with it will be slow! It's a H plate 205 GTi with a 306 S16 engine in, it came off ebay with a fair bit off work to do, the engine is in place and thats it, needs wiring, plumbing and then the front panels and wings replacing. The idea at the end is to use it for trackdays which will see the car seam welded, caged etc.

 

To start with I'm looking at the wiring, the car came with the 205 loom removed complete by unplugging and a loom partially attached to the s16 engine, this looks complete but not all the small plugs are connected or labelled. I'm struggling to find any help with attaching the 2 looms together, I've had a search of the forum and couldn't find much to help, I tried searching the net and found a topic about the GTI-6 engine/wiring which is here: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.ph...9295&page=1

What I'm wondering is if the wire numbers will be the same/similiar for the S16 loom?

I've got 3 round multipin plugs and sockets for the s16 loom, I'm guessing that these are the sections that need linking to the 205 loom? I have the car side of these with a fair amount of cable left attached ready for linking.

Does anybody have a picture of the fuel pump relay that I can match to the loom I've got?

There is no keypad with the S16 loom, should it have one or does it not need it?

How much will I be able to remove from the loom, ie excess cable for redundant equipment

 

I did a search of the forum and found the 205 loom idents, I'm just missing the S16 idents.

 

Thanks in advance for your help

Cheers

Eric

[welshpug 1,623]

the topics you need to look for are entitled "Brown multiplug wiring" If I recall.

 

these will point you in the right direction to finding which wires do what on the car side, engine side of thins is relatively straightforward as its all fairly self contained in the 306 loom.

 

depending on how old the S16 was it may not have had a keypad immobiliser.

[Sloppy 0]

unfortuantely most s16's have keypds and if you dont have the code your fooked.

 

To get one unlocked its around £120, luckly for you i have a 405 (late steel blocked engine) ecu (came from a car with no keypad) so will plug and play and i also have a s16 ecu which i can unlock before i send out (i.e put code in and unplug so it done 're lock')

 

Let me know if you need either via pm as i can post em out.

 

P.s i love the way the sware mod has sensored you location !!!!

Edited December 28, 2007 by Sloppy

[ericdean 0]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I'll go searching now, hoping to get it wired in the morning if my brother is about to help fetch bits.

I'm not sure what year car the engine came from so I'll assume that the ecu is locked, I'll hopefully try it tomorrow and let you know, cheers.

 

 

Thanks

Eric

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

my brother is about to help fetch bits.

 

What's wrong with you fetching bits you lazy arse!

 

 

 

 

....oh yeah; broken ankles.

 

 

 

P.S. 'Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe'. Just wanna see if the swear mod gets bored.

 

P.P.S. (After initial posting) ^^^ No! It doesn't! PMPL

Edited December 28, 2007 by DrSarty

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

unfortuantely most s16's have keypds and if you dont have the code your fooked.

 

To get one unlocked its around £120, luckly for you i have a 405 (late steel blocked engine) ecu (came from a car with no keypad) so will plug and play and i also have a s16 ecu which i can unlock before i send out (i.e put code in and unplug so it done 're lock')

 

Let me know if you need either via pm as i can post em out.

 

P.s i love the way the sware mod has sensored you location !!!!

 

 

if that 405 ecu is up for grabs i would be definately be interested.

[ericdean 0]

What's wrong with you fetching bits you lazy arse!

....oh yeah; broken ankles.

 

P.S. 'Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe - Sc*nthorpe'. Just wanna see if the swear mod gets bored.

 

P.P.S. (After initial posting) ^^^ No! It doesn't! PMPL

 

Ha Ha brilliant!! There can't be many place names it can moderate!

 

Next question please . . What starter motor should be used with this conversion? At present we have an s16 engine, standard 1.9 gearbox and a starter motor thats fits the mounting points but fouls against the inlet manifold when trying to fit it. We loosend the manifold off to give a little clearance thinking that the starter motor would fit behind the manifold when fitted but it doesn't, there is a gap of about 1/2" between the manifold and head now? Any and all ideas welcome...!

 

Also, can anyone tell me if I should be able to hear the fuel pump run when the ignition is first put on or would this be held off because the ECU could be locked? We have got the wiring done, and when the ignition is turned on there is no sound, just curious as I can hear it on my BMW when the ignition first comes on.

 

Thanks in advance for the help guys, muchly appreciated

 

Eric

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

You should use an S16 startermotor as it is a lot smaller than the 1.9 startmotor. You should hear the fuel pump running when ingnition is switched.

[ericdean 0]

Thanks for the reply Hilgie, I'll go searching for one later.

I may be back with some more questions with regard to the wiring . . .

 

Cheers

 

Eric

[ericdean 0]

Got a starter motor for the car yesterday afternoon and after a bit of an argument with it, we got it in!! It was getting stuck on some part of the block, rectangular in shape with a couple of small holes in it, couldn't work out what it was supposed to be for as its located directly behind the starter and couldn't get the grinder in to remove it, so we had to shave a bit off the starter to get it to fit!

 

All fitted snuggly and plumbed in ok so we put a battery on the car to check it, key in, turned and CLUNK, no engine turning, tried a couple of times incase there was a bad earth/connection, same each time. Put a spanner on the bottom pulley and tried to turn it by hand, it seemed locked in place but tried it the other way and it moved, always getting stuck at the same point each time? the battery is charged.

 

Going to lift the plugs out and have a nosey in to see if there is anything obvious, following that the engine will be coming out and stripped. Open to other ideas as to what it could be?

 

Here's some pics of how she is at present (I hope) . . .

 

 

Can somebody please tell me what these bits are/ what they do . . .

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Eric

[ericdean 0]

Bit the bullet and took the engine out of the car tonight and split the head from the block and found this . . . . . . . .

 

 

 

Caused by a 1/4" drive extension piece that had "found" its way into the engine, lesson learnt here, don't buy an engine off ebay without turning it over by hand first!! Not sure how the previous owner hadn't noticed part of his tool kit missing!!

The culprit and busted valve bits . .

 

 

Eric

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I bet that's why he sold it, I know that when people want me to stick unknown engine's in I always say at there own risk as there's allot of things that can and do go wrong.

 

That engine looks like it's been stood for a very long time too, Cheapest way is to find another engine

[ericdean 0]

That was our guess as to why it was sold!!

Was thinking of replacing just the one piston and the 2 valves, how much do these engines go for? The inside of all the bores are nice, as is the rest of the head, bit carboned up but a good scrub with scotchbrite and autosol will see it right.

 

Eric

[carbers205 1]

If its of any use to you given the state of the internals I know what a couple of the electrics pics are.

Big brown relay in 2nd pic is fuel relay, and the round multiplug in the third pic looks suspiciously like the connector for the alarm.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

And that's my socket extension. I've been looking for it everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[ericdean 0]

Here's a little update with some pics, a nintendo wii & a trip to the NEC on saturday slowed the progress a little . .

 

Its coming out . .

 

 

On the work stand ready to be stripped, we whipped the head off while it was sat on the floor before it got on the stand

 

 

Oil pump being removed, trust our luck for the trashed piston to be under the oil pump

 

 

The new and old piston heads together and the new head fitted to the conrod ready to go back in, ordering new shells for the bottom end tomorrow, be rude not to change them while its out and upside down and it has been recommended to us

 

 

The bore on this piston is fine, just a quick clean and the piston can go back in. The head, although it looks bad, it isn't, the damage is only on the surface and hasn't marked the valve seats which is a bonus, The valve seats will get ground in with the new valves, but I think I'll do them all while its off tho.

 

I'd send you the extension bar back but it doesn't fit anymore, it's a litle squashed

 

Cheers

Eric

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'd send you the extension bar back but it doesn't fit anymore, it's a little squashed

 

Invoice in the post naturally.

 

Top and informative pictures Eric. Thanks.

 

Rich

[ericdean 0]

No problems, I'm going to take more pics as all the work is done, we've got the parts ready to go in, and if anyone is interested the parts were £100.59 for the piston and 4 valves, there are 2 types of exhaust valve listed for this engine? so we ordered both and will match them up when the head is stripped, then return the unwanted pair. Still to buy is a head set, head bolts, sump gasket and a set of shells.

 

The next job is a clean of the bore and th enew piston in with a new set of shells, then strip and clean the head, regrind all the valves and rebuild it.

 

Still quite amazed how you could loose an extension bar in a spark plug hole, and then put the spark plug back in again! There are a few other oddities aswell, like placing all the coil packs back in place while leaving one spark plug out!

 

Cheers

Eric

[ericdean 0]

Little bit more progress to show . . .

 

Got the head on the workbench to strip down, clean and rebuild, although only 2 valves had been damaged we decided to remove them all to re-grind them seeing as the head was on the bench, the 2 valves that are being replaced will be done with course paste and then fine paste, the others will just need a fine paste to lap them in. The difference in the 2 types of valves for this head is the distance between the top of the valve stem and the 1st collet grove, ours are 4mm, the other type is 3mm. We have also got the new shells ready to fit.

 

Removing the 5 cam retainers to allow the cams to be lifted off to gain acces to the hydraulic followers. The picture shows the 5 retainers on the bench and the cams ready to come out.

 

Hydraulic followers were the next to be removed to gain access to the valve springs. A couple of these were solid and we couldn't move them by hand, a good soak in diesel should clean them out, if not we've got a couple spare from my brothers old MI engine that the bottom end went on.

 

Compressing the valve springs to remove the collets and then remove the valve and spring

 

All the valves and 'bits' that go with them

 

The head looked very grotty when it was lifted off, but with the careful application of elbow grease, a gasket scraper, scotchbrite pad and some autosol it came up pretty good.

Before

After

 

The damage in the chamber from the snapped valves is light, there is no damage to the valve seats or spark plug threads, I'll rub down the rough edges to smooth it over before grinding the valves back in.

 

We have also started to replace the front panels of the car

There is a lot of rust and missing metal on the passengerside inner-wing at the front which I think will take a bit of work to replace. Should be good fun as we've just got a new MIG welder to play with.

 

It had a fault with the butterflys in the inlet manifold, one set was stuck shut, turned out it was a bent moutning bracket for the operating actuator, nice and easy fix!!

 

Eric

[welshpug 1,623]

good progress there, the big round plug will be where the loom plugged into the chassis leg, this is the part where you need to join your 205's power sources and gauge wiring.

 

 

oh, BTW how did you manage to break BOTH ankles? an MTB injury perchance??

[ericdean 0]

good progress there, the big round plug will be where the loom plugged into the chassis leg, this is the part where you need to join your 205's power sources and gauge wiring.

oh, BTW how did you manage to break BOTH ankles? an MTB injury perchance??

 

Cheers, I think I've got the wiring sorted, I'll decipher the scribbles I made once i know it works and post them, Its just the switched live to the fuel relay I'm missing now. I need to check but I think I can take one from the switched positive on the big brown plug, I connected the Cable CC1 on the 306 loom which according to the haynes book should have been the one but it didn't seem to work?

 

I broke them both banger racing, had a mk3 cortina at kings lynn and got hit head on while I was stationary, the cluth pedal broke the left as it swiped across and the impact with the floor pan disloacted and broke the right, 5hrs in surgery and 12screws and a plate! That was 15weeks ago today, can just about walk on crutches with the left ankle and the right is still non-weight bearing!

 

Eric

[Sloppy 0]

Cheers, I think I've got the wiring sorted, I'll decipher the scribbles I made once i know it works and post them, Its just the switched live to the fuel relay I'm missing now. I need to check but I think I can take one from the switched positive on the big brown plug, I connected the Cable CC1 on the 306 loom which according to the haynes book should have been the one but it didn't seem to work?

 

I broke them both banger racing, had a mk3 cortina at kings lynn and got hit head on while I was stationary, the cluth pedal broke the left as it swiped across and the impact with the floor pan disloacted and broke the right, 5hrs in surgery and 12screws and a plate! That was 15weeks ago today, can just about walk on crutches with the left ankle and the right is still non-weight bearing!

 

Eric

 

fooking hell that was bit anti solcial of the other driver, i hope he feel guilty.

 

Nice progress on the car

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yep, looking good. If I remember, the switched fuel pump live in one of the two brown multiplugs under the dash is white (or very light blue), thick and no. 76. (If that's the one you meant).

 

And you could've at least asked before using my duvet cover to clean your greasy engine on!

 

 

I'd also be tempted to put new ex. manifold studs in at this stage. They're cheap, and with new nuts, they'll be a damn sight easier to fit and pinch up in the car as work space is limited then. I'd test fit the ex. manifold too, to ensure enough thread is protruding meaning the manifold nuts will do their job. I had to use a few washers on some of mine as I guess some manifold studs wound in more than others OR some are different. But a dry fit won't do any harm anyway, as a blowing manifold is a f*@ker!

 

Rich

Edited January 20, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,623]

that's what happens in banger racing! keep active you'll get better quicker

 

I think the wiring looks quite similar to a ZX I've done, so I'll dig out the pics of the loom.

[ericdean 0]

It was a bit anti social, it made it even worse that he didn't stop to see how I was, just loaded his car up and left in a hurry!! I'll miss the racing and building cars which is why I've started this project have got the xrays scanned in if anyone wants to see them

 

I never thought to replace the studs, they look in quite good condition but I'll check them and the nuts when I re-grind the valves. They came off ok after a 5min soak with WD40.

 

That wire number is 76 on the smaller of the 2 plugs, it connects to wire 120 on the 306 loom but when energised I can't hear the fuel pump running. I've looked through the haynes book and wire 120 is a sw+ve to F35 & 121 goes to the fuel p/p, I then found a motornic 3.2 wiring diagram which shows the double fuel relay, looking at this I think I need a switched live to this and then connect the fuel pump supply to the outgoing side of this.

 

Eric