205 Gti6 / Mi16

[jamiej 0]

Here it is, i think this post could be very useful to other ppl ... maybe

 

I am very much toying with the idea of a 205 conversion.

 

Now, there seems to be 2 serious routes to go down ... Mi16 or GTI6

 

If i could get these questions answered it would be very much appreciated ...

 

Cost

 

What does each conversion cost, reali i want a benchmark cost, this would include everything required inc the engine and gearbox etc to get the engine running in a 205 GTI (1.9 o 1.6).

 

What can you expect to pay for the engines and ancilliaries ? and where is the best place to get them.

 

 

Work Required

 

I believe that both the cenversions to not require much fabrication, is this correct ?

 

Performance

 

What kind of performance would you expect from the finished car, again this is just reali the bench mark case. As in, no reali performance modifications, standard internals.

 

 

I underatnd that some of the answers to the question will be based on opinion and what experiences other people have had but any sort of information would be very much appreciated. There seems to be lots of information on the Mi16 but not reali any at all on the GTI6.

 

 

Cheers for you help.

 

Jamie

[TurboSam 5]

GTi6:

 

cost- Can't comment on how much engines etc go for, I bought a complete car and broke it for spares keeping the engine

work required- not too bad, do a search and all will be revealed

performance- I've never driven an 8v GTi to compare, but the GTI6 is quite nippy. Enough to keep a Boxster behind so not too bad

[CaptainK 11]

I looked into this as well and concluded that I want to go for a GTi6 conversion early next year.

[jamiej 0]

I know, it does sound awesome, but like i said. There is not lots of infomation, I dont know whether im not searching for the right thing but there doesnt seem to be any information on the conversion as a whole.

[felix2566 2]

Have look in the section of the forum where peoples projects are listed and look for GTi6 conversions. Spiky's springs to mind.

 

I normally search for more specific things rather than just 'GTi6 conversion'. So far I have been able to get all the info that I have needed to nearly complete the conversion just from searching through peoples threads. It is all here!

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

GTI6 any day. I've got a 405 Mi16 which is 1110kgs and I recently drove my dad's 306 Gti6 which is 1214kgs and despite the extra 100 kilos the GTI6 pulls alot better from much lower revs. That said if I redline the 405 in every gear the difference is bugger all, as evidenced in the Autocar magazine tests. But you're not allowed to kill a 306, you should get a Xsara VTS instead. Plus that'll come with a gearbox that allows you to turn right without getting incompetant looks from other drivers

[jamiej 0]

Xsara VTS, how does this differ from the GTI6 in terms of the engine, gearbox and ancilliaries

Can you them up quite cheaply, i would buy the whole car but idont think i can afford to lay out that much money in one go, i'd need to collate the parts over a period of time

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Same engine and everything as the GTI6 but hasn't got the 6 speed gearbox. It's 5 speed and has the same ratios as the 405 Mi16. But yeah the Xsara is alot cheaper than the 306. Mind you the GTI6 prices have plummetted recently. About a year ago my dad bought one for £2800 and ones of the same age are now going for under £2000.

[jamiej 0]

Thats the thing you see, i was thinking around 4-500 quid for an engine and then just buy bits and bobs along the way, i havent got 2 grand to piut down all at once

[Daxed 7]

You will probably find a GTI-6 lump within your stated immediate budget, another £100 for a top end low miler. Whilst opinions do vary I do agree with the previous posts that the 6 speed sucks in the 205, the R/H lock is atrocious.

 

It would be false economy whilst the engine is out to not change the timing belt, water pump and tensioners. You may then wish to consider an uprated mount kit to keep the thing in place and hopefully avoid master cylinder/engine & exhaust/bulkhead clashes. You will also need a suitable clutch.

 

I recently had a replacement 1.6 put in my road car and the price of various bits and bobs, hose clips, antifreeze, oil, spark plugs, oil filter, air filter etc etc came well into 3 figures.

 

So.... You now have loads more horses, does the diff put it down ok or do you fancy an LSD?

 

Are the std brakes still adequate?

 

On a limited budget, have you considered an upgrade path concentrating on the braking / handling potential of the car before looking at more 'go'?

[boldy205 74]

For tha MI16 (and the GTI6 i think) you need 1.9 GTI hubs and driveshafts, poss wishbones too? not sure though, sure someone will know.

I have a MI16 converted 205 and used a QEP Manifld re-angle plate as the exhaust manifold will hit the bulkhead, you will also need to cut/reweld a standard 205 gti downpipe as it hangs at the wrong angle.

If you are running injection you want to use the full MI16 ECU loom spliced into the 205 engine loom, more can be found in a search or you can go for carbs as i did, again more info availabe in search. The injection route will be a bit cheaper to get running and better on fuel (but carbs sound the nuts!!!)

Either 1.6 1.9 or MI16 boxs will fit (think any BE box)

hope that helps.

Matt.

[jackherer 543]

For tha MI16 (and the GTI6 i think) you need 1.9 GTI hubs and driveshafts, poss wishbones too? not sure though, sure someone will know.

 

 

You can use 1.6 or 1.9 driveshafts and hubs, as long as they match each other it doesnt matter. Wishbones are the same on either 1.6 or 1.9.

[jamiej 0]

If the 6 speed box in the 205 is not the way to go, can the original 1.9 GTI box be used realistically, with an uprated clutch etcetera.

 

As for considering the brakes handling etc, i thought that the GTi6 brakes would suffice but i would imagine that would require the GTI6 hubs ? is this correct. Can the original 205 brakes be uprated on the standard hubs ??

 

I'm not hellbelt on getting silly power, i realise that the funding is ultimately going to be the limiting factor and it would be no fun having a monster engine with the standard brakes and suspension, the car wouldnt reali be that drivable.

 

Also from the ignition side of things, what are the options for the GTI6.

 

All this help is reali appreciated, many thanks

[boldy205 74]

yea the 1.9 box is fine to use, think i put a MI16 clutch in mine as they are slightly bigger.

Brakes can be uprated, GTI6 disks+calipers fit straight onto Std 1.9 GTI hubs and are supposed to be very good at hauling a 205 up! (on thing i need to do to mine, although i did 3 track sessions at Castle Combe on mildly uprated but standard size, disks and pads, and didnt have much of a problem)

[jackherer 543]

A 1.9 gearbox is no fun at all on a 1.9 Mi16. It suits a GTI6 a bit better though.

[CaptainK 11]

If it helps when it comes to my GTi6 conversion next year, I've been finding out some useful information - it'll be using the standard 1.9 box and a Mi16 clutch. I'm also hoping to opt for the GTi6 calipers and discs etc to help it slow down but it depends on my budget. I've yet to decide what suspension components to uprate. But I don't think my budget will allow for that anyways.

[jamiej 0]

If it helps when it comes to my GTi6 conversion next year, I've been finding out some useful information - it'll be using the standard 1.9 box and a Mi16 clutch. I'm also hoping to opt for the GTi6 calipers and discs etc to help it slow down but it depends on my budget. I've yet to decide what suspension components to uprate. But I don't think my budget will allow for that anyways.

 

 

just out of curiosity, if you dont mind me asking, what is your budget ?

[CaptainK 11]

just out of curiosity, if you dont mind me asking, what is your budget ?

I've been quoted a price of £X for the whole lot (labour and parts) from a forum member thats done many before to do the conversion for me and it seems like a jolly good quote. My budget is that at the moment, but I'm just wondering about getting other bits done as well as he said he could provide brakes, suspension etc as well and it'd be cheaper labour wise to do it whilst its all off road and in bits already. But alas, as you know money is not infinite.

 

p.s. I've put £X above as I didn't know if the person in question wanted me to be so open about it. If you want full details, PM me and I'll pass you onto the guy. Or if he sees my post and is happy to comment, then job done. (but remember he is doing my GTi6 conversion first though )

[jonnie205 1]

[jamiej 0]

i get the feeling your contact is Jonnie205, i've been talking to him too ... and he is jolly nice chap !!! or so it seems ... hehe

I hope to do all the work myself so costings should just come from parts. Either way tho, i dont have a lot of money to do, it all with. My MR2 is hopefully going to fund the bulk of the project.

 

I just need to get started reali, and because im doing a full engine rebuild , i need an engine, which needs money !!!

 

its a vicious circle

Edited December 4, 2007 by jamiej

[boldy205 74]

Jackherer:

What Box would you recomend and for what reason/what driving if a 1.9 box is no good?

[All Praise The GTI 3]

just as a pointer i bought an acciddent damaged xsara vts 67k(all it needed was a bootlid and windscreen) for abot 500 and made most that back from selling bits. i kept the engine,box,loom,ecu and brakes. was a pity to break it really but i got what i wanted

[jackherer 543]

Jackherer:

What Box would you recomend and for what reason/what driving if a 1.9 box is no good?

 

 

An Mi16 or 1.6 box is good on a 1.9 Mi16. The 1.9 box is just too long.

[CaptainK 11]

i get the feeling your contact is Jonnie205, i've been talking to him too ... and he is jolly nice chap !!!

Yup, thats the chap. Has been very helpful so far.