Fitting A Tu Engine To A Gti

[iety2004 0]

This might of been asked and answered before but i cant seem to find anything using the search function.

 

Basically looking into building a 1400 Road Rally car, cant bring myself to buy a 106 or 205 Rallye to butcher, even tho this is why Peugeot built them, but there rare enough as they are! Even 205 xs are not that comon these days sooo.....

 

Spec is, 1.9/1.6 rolling shell. Rallye engine, prefrably 106 rallye running gear due to the injection

 

Is it straight forward enough to do, i know that is what a 205 1.3 rallye basically is, a 1.6 gti with carb'd TU engine. But what will i need all together? will gti drive shafts fit the MA box etc

 

thanks in advance

 

Gareth

[Jrod 7]

You will need to modify the subframe as the gear post is in a diff place, will also need to swap the tank or fit regulators to bring it down to carb pressure.

 

Why not just use a base model shell, much easier to get a non sunroof.

[bren_1.3 1]

wont matter if its a 1.9 or 1.6 rolling shell, bar the rear suspension,

youll need the base model shafts and hubs as the gti shafts wont fit the hubs if i remember rightly. either way gti shafts arent useable.

unless you can find 1.3 205 euro rallye shafts, which allow you to use the wider track 1600 hubs.

 

you'll need a top mount arm from a later TU engine'd car. cant remember the year. 1993 rings a bell. if you plan to run webers or throttle bodies on a euro rallye engine, then you'll have to cut the engine mount down drastically to make sure everything fits. (as it stands im now having problems with fitting a TPS sensor on the side of the webers as it touches the engine mount arm, which is already extensively cut down, and i dont fancy it failing and taking out the overpriced TPS kit i shelled out for.)

 

you'll have to cut and re-weld the gear post linkage as it gets in the way of the TU exhaust downpipe. youll also need the big long base model gear rod, that goes from the gear lever to the bottom of the L-bracket, as it has a bend in it to clear the steering rack.

you also need to move the little ball on the right hand side of the subframe that the other gear select rod pops onto. its a little 13mm bolt on the underside of the subframe. socket and extension needed for that.

 

you'll also have to move the bottom engine mount U bracket to the other pre-drilled location.

 

engine wise. if you can wire in a 1300 from a 106 then great, as you can use the gti fuel pump to feed things. otherwise if your using a cam driven fuel pump which the XS and euro rallye use, you might have to find a solution to lose the fuel pump and keep the outlets on the top of the tank for fuel feed. i had something made for this in ally which is quite trick.

 

if you want a rallye engine with webers ala euro rallye then clearance issues arise with the brake servo. theres limited choice in using filters and airboxes. i use a pipercross px-600 foam filter but even that rubs on the servo. its not so bad as i run a solid bottom engine mount and spaced out rubbers on the top mount so little movement, but beware of this issue if you arent running uprated mounts while running this engine.

 

its horses for courses, issues will arise everywhere in the conversion and many people will say not to bother. BUT you'll have the best of both worlds. lightweight alloy engine and GTi suspension. but thats another debate for another time...

[Sandy 189]

Good plan I'd say. It depends which gearbox you use. If you keep it simple and fit the normal TU gearbox (MA type), you'll need the MA shafts and uprights, and the TU gear linkage post welded to the subframe and rods. Or you can get brave and use a TU casing BE and driveshaft bearing bracket from a 206/307/Picasso etc, which is a much stronger box with a better choice of standard ratios and will allow you to retain the GTi shafts, uprights etc. There'a bit of cocking about needed with the linkages and clutch cable, but it's worth it IMO.

 

Engine wise, the 1.3 Rallye engine is a nice lump and I'd definitely encourage you to keep it alloy block, for the 23kg weight saving way out front, but a 1.4 8v built up from choice parts is a noticeably stronger and gruntier engine, done right. An Iron block 1.4 8v would be a bit simpler to build, but that extra 23kg is where you don't want it.

If you're bound to use a single TB inlet, then the 1.3 Rallye one is easily the best one. The 106 Rallye and XSi heads are fantastic as they come and only seem to improve if re-worked subtely and very carefully; ported heads often make less impressive results overall than standard heads.

[iety2004 0]

Hmmm, so its not as straight forward as i 1st thought then,

 

This is the thing, i'd like the lightweight alloy engine in the Rallye's but if its soo much effort to do the conversion, it might not be worth my wild, already got a project Road Rally/Stage car, A 1979 Talbot Sunbeam with a Focus St170 engine. So was after more of a easier winter project.

 

So to build a 1400 Road Rally car, that will have a Rallye engine, wheres the best place to start?

How much work to make the GTI suspension to fit a base model shell?

[Casanova 0]

Frankly, I'd just buy an XS, and use it for rallies. Or, if you're building a TU engine, then any 1.0/1.1/1.4 base model shell - there are plenty about! Fit some 14" steelies (incredibly cheap) and some vented brakes - it can all be done very cheaply and easily. Decent bulbs and tyres, couple of XS seats with the rest of the interior stripped, and you've got yourself a very functional 1400 road rally car!

 

XSs aren't that rare - I can't see the point in doing it with a GTI shell which just creates extra hassle!

[Casanova 0]

Hmmm, so its not as straight forward as i 1st thought then,

 

This is the thing, i'd like the lightweight alloy engine in the Rallye's but if its soo much effort to do the conversion, it might not be worth my wild, already got a project Road Rally/Stage car, A 1979 Talbot Sunbeam with a Focus St170 engine. So was after more of a easier winter project.

 

So to build a 1400 Road Rally car, that will have a Rallye engine, wheres the best place to start?

How much work to make the GTI suspension to fit a base model shell?

UK Rallyes have iron-block 75bhp engines. Continental ones got the nice powerful TU24 I think you're talking about. TU engines drop in and out very easily

 

GTI suspension can go onto a base shell very easily. Same for brakes, wheels, anything really. It really is much easier doing it thataway (in my opinion).

 

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[iety2004 0]

Thing is with road rallying, i got to keep the interior, i can remove the radio and all the sound deadening etc, just want a 8v sub 1400 engined car 1st, be up against micra's, swift GTI's Nova SR's just thought the Alloy Rallye engine will keep me competitive. Small engined cars weight is everything.

 

But i see where your coming from with the gti running gear and just the rallye engine, didnt think about it that way.

The other advantage of using a GTI shell is alot of people buy a car, prep it and then have to sell up, so theres alot of project shells out there with all the expensive bits and work already done,

[iety2004 0]

Casanova, i was more thinking of using the engine out of a 106 Rallye and running the injection.

 

Can u get single sidedraught weber manifolds for the tu engine?

[bren_1.3 1]

Engine wise, the 1.3 Rallye engine is a nice lump and I'd definitely encourage you to keep it alloy block, for the 23kg weight saving way out front, but a 1.4 8v built up from choice parts is a noticeably stronger and gruntier engine, done right.

 

what would you rather build? a 1.4 16v or a 1.4 8v? if it was for a rally engine...

[Sandy 189]

A 1.4 8v is much simpler to put together than a 1.4 16v, there are several issues to overcome with making it 16v and the TU 8v is such a good 8v, there's not as big an advantage in going 16v as other engines.

If you can find a complete (with injection system and unlocked ECU) 1.3 8v rallye engine, that would be quite simple, but it's going to be hard to find a good one, they only usually get removed when they are expiring.

[Jrod 7]

Also dont you have to use standard intake for road rallys?

[Sandy 189]

That's what i was getting at about the S1 inlet.

[Boris 0]

I,m on the middle of the same project.Same as RossD but with standart S2 engine and gears.

before rechange the engines have to found some parts like drive shafts from 205TU engine(1.0,1.1,1.4), gears linkage position on the subframe-cut and move, and the top engine mount from 205 or 306 TU(on 106 S2 is a smaller mount than need for 205).I think it,s easyer to use the all wiring loom from 106,but only the dashboard gadgets is my problem for now.

 

rossd project

 

205 1.6 with 1.3 head TU24

[iety2004 0]

After doing a event in my Xr3i last night, a 1400 is even a better idea now! LOL

 

Nice to see a white 205 Rallye driven like its meant to.

 

When you guys say building a 1400 with selected parts, where would be the best place to start? and how much power and torque will be achiveable?

[Sandy 189]

Getting the compression up is the main priority, combined with fitting a 106 XSi or Rallye head.