Smoking 106 Diesel On Startup

[M@tt 77]

My ebay bargain super commuter 106 diesel has smoked on startup since i've had her. It usually starts in a cloud of smoke and for about 10 seconds and then is completely fine. It's as though the bores are getting diesel in them when its off. If i floor the pedal it seems to clear it out of its system and then its fine.

 

I know nothing about diesels so just wondered if anyone knows whats likely to be causing this. Its a 106 XND (1.5)

 

Been meaning to have a read of the haynes manual but not got round to it yet.

 

Any help appreciated

 

Matt

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Sounds like a normal pug diesel! I dont really know about diesels either but at a guess it sounds like fuel is getting into the head after the engine is turned off, possible leaky injectors, not sure how a diesel pump works though tbh, then it's used when you first start it up causing the smoke, i take it its black?

[M@tt 77]

no its not really black it's more white/grey

[welshpug 1,622]

The most common cause is either dead/dying glowplugs (or a voltage drop due to dying alternator/battery) or worn injectors (they seep overnight and leak diesel into the bores.

 

glowplugs are a relatively cheap fix, injectors not so, especially if its an ebay special! but they can be found for around the £25 to 30 mark (each...)

 

Its worth noting that Diesel injectors have a recommended lifespan of Circa 60k miles before needing refurbishment, so its not surprising that older engines smoke a little.

[M@tt 77]

Ah well the engines done 175k according to the clocks

 

I guess the thing to do would be whip a plug out first thing in the morning and see if there's fuel in the bores. if there is i guess it indicates the injectors.

[welshpug 1,622]

yep, its an indirect system so the glow plugs are sat in the swirl chamber right next to the injector's tip, you might not find any dampness though, as the diesel sits in the bore rather than on the plug itself, though a sooty plug shows evidence of un-burnt fuel

[pugrallye 0]

or you have an air leak, causing mixture to over richen, either in pipework or at base of injector seal etc...

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

What's it like to start first thing, if it struggles to start then it could be a head gasket issue with water seaping in over night, I had just the same problem with 306TD it took at least 3/4 cycles of the glow plugs to clear it's throat so to speak. It would run just fine and dandy after that.

 

Chris

[Beastie 1]

Worth checking the valve clearances with the engine cold after standing overnight. These engines very often close up the valve clearances completely giving all sorts of cold start symptoms. As soon as the engine warms up even a little the cylinder head expands and the valve clearance increases enough to make the symptoms disappear.

My 106 has done over 120000 miles and it never produces visible exhaust gases hot or cold - they are a much less smoky engine than the diesel XU!!

[M@tt 77]

cheers for the info chaps

smokes

 

Chris you could be right, it sounds exactly like what is happening, takes a couple of turns of the key first thing, smokes and then is fine once its cleared its throat.

 

I'll check the water levels to see if its using any

 

The lad i bought it off said it had had a new head 6months ago after the rad packed in and it cooked itself although no proof beut he did seem fairly genuine, might whip it off and have a look.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

takes a couple of turns of the key first thing, smokes and then is fine once its cleared its throat.

This also points to a couple of dead glowplugs imo, they wil slowly start to get harder to start with one or two down but still start pretty quickly. Once they get down to three dead plugs things take a rapid downturn.

 

Check them first before condemning the head gasket.

 

Graham.

[M@tt 77]

whats the best way to test the glowplugs?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

If removing them is a pita I was told that touching the end of the glowplug with a wire straight from the battery, if it sparks the plug is working, if not remove it to test it better.

 

I've used this method before & always got a spark but it was clear when they had died due to the difference in cold starting so I never tested them that way when I replaced them. I did test them off the car & they were dead though.

 

If you remove them a battery charger can be used to test or just wires from the battery. They should glow red hot within a few seconds of getting power.

 

Graham.

[M@tt 77]

today i tested the glowplugs by connecting them up to a car battery and all glowed brightly within a couple of seconds or so, so i dont think those are the probem of my smoking issue.

 

my next step woud be to check the compression for any possible HG issue however on the diesel the only hole to put the tester in is the injector hole and as i believe the diesel pump is belt driven how can i do this without it pumping diesel all over the engine bay?

 

oh and i'll also check the clearances as suggested above

[welshpug 1,622]

unplug the stop solenopid.

 

if its a 1.5D you can take the glow plugs out easily enough and screw the tester in there (not sure if your kit will, I know the sykes one at work will)

[M@tt 77]

cheers for the info on the stop solenoid

 

i took the glowplugs out easy enough but they're really small and the tester i'm looking at getting(well all of them that i've seen so far) have a 14mm and 18mm adapter but the glowplug is 10mm, any ideas?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Unfortunately I think the best & most accurate way of doing a compression test is through the spark plug hole on a petrol engine or the injector hole on a diesel.

 

IIRC the compression testers are diesel engine specific.

 

As suggested by Beastie, check your valve clearances. The XUD's have a tendency to close up after high miles which can make them an absolute pig to start even with new glowplugs etc fitted whether the TUD is similar I'm not sure but its an easy thing to check.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,622]

should be easy enough, cam cover off and there the cam is

[sutol 0]

As far as I know Black smoke is overfueling

Blue smoke is a cold engine

White smoke is either condensation in exhaust or damp in cylinders

But dont quote me

[pugrallye 0]

glowplugs are common... havent read whole post but if its a newer engine glowplugs dont run on 12 volts normally 5 or 6 so 12 will make even a faulty one glow!

check valve clearences and and for leaking injectors, most diesel comp testers will have adapters for glow plug holes, also coolant temp senders (sender may be spiking when cold) all are food for thought!

Edited December 30, 2007 by pugrallye

[M@tt 77]

Well i checked the valve clearances and i think Beastie could possibly be onto something. All the inlet valves clearances were alot less than they should have been, the haynes manual states that the cleances should be 0.15mm +- 0.075mm however i found all the inlets on mine were less than 0.05mm (thinnest guage i had)

 

I can understand if the gaps were too big as i would put it down to follwoer or cam wear but why on earth would they be too small? Also would this gap issue really cause a smoking issue?

 

cheers

[welshpug 1,622]

yeah, basically the valves aren't closing for long enough if the clearances are too small.

 

Common practice on old rocker equipped engines was to open up the clearances a touch.

Edited January 1, 2008 by welshpug

[M@tt 77]

so where's the best place to get shims from? is it a dealer only part or can motor factors get them?

again any ideas what causes the clearances to tighten up?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Dealer only really but most engine remanufacturers would most likely stock them just Pug were easiest.

 

When I got mine from Pug, they would only sell them in pairs so I've got a few spare if they are the same on TUD as on the XUD, let me know when you know what suizes you need & I'll see if I can help out.

 

Mine still aren't set at the clearances I'd like, even with them closer the minimum clearances it starts better (not that it was a bad starter anyway) but the difference in smoke out the back when I boot it is amazing. There never used to be much but now I can't see any in car headlamps behind me.

 

There is a valve shim calculator xls file that jim21070 attached to a previous topic (mine) here.

 

Graham.

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

so where's the best place to get shims from? is it a dealer only part or can motor factors get them?

again any ideas what causes the clearances to tighten up?

 

Pretty certain Sheffield Engine Services (Hillsborough) has them.

 

Chris