Will A 206 Gearbox Fit Into A Gti6 Engined 205?

[JamesLumley 4]

I've managed to track down a 206 s1600 sequential gearbox from Peugeot Sport and wondered whether it will mate up to my xu10j4 gti-6 touring car engine in the 205?

 

It's manufactured by Sadev in France

 

Anyone know anything about these?

 

Cheers James

Edited October 22, 2007 by JamesLumley

[returnofjim 0]

I've managed to track down a 206 s1600 sequential gearbox from Peugeot Sport and wondered whether it will mate up to my xu10j4 gti-6 touring car engine in the 205?

 

It's manufactured by Sadev in France

 

Anyone know anything about these?

 

Cheers James

 

Hi, If its a BE4 box then i seem to remember something about the bellhousing being different to the be3 boxes so isnt a straight fit, but i think you can swap the bellhousing for a be3 box and it should work. Maybe someone else can clarify this. Is the 206 s1600 a 1.6 engine or a 2.0 gti engine?

 

Edited October 22, 2007 by returnofjim

[JamesLumley 4]

Here are a couple of pics. Its from a s1600 (super 1600) so 1600cc engined car

 

 

 

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Doesn;t look like it will, the starter's in the wrong place and I'm sure the bellhousing holes are different, but not being a TU expert I could be talking a load of old tosh, Not sure the the inout shaft uses the right dia and number of splines but that is a easy check to do, Worth getting in touch with Sadev as they are very helpfull,

[jonnie205 1]

The super 1600 engine was a tu 16v, you will ahve to change the bellhousing or adapt something to fit but i can imagine it being lots of work

[welshpug 1,623]

the splines on both the XU and Tu are the same (unsure if the shaft is the same length though), but you'll need a different bellhousing for that gearbox, and as its a Sadev box you'll need a Sadev XU bellhousing.

[returnofjim 0]

Looks like a very nice piece of kit tho, i can imagine why you would like it to fit

[Batfink 201]

very nice. I think you would need to contact Sadev. I have a contact for the uk distributor if you want.

Looks like the bellhousing is able to be changed but the casing looks different to the ones I have seen so the whole thing might be a custom job.

[JamesLumley 4]

Hi Batfink, pls can I have some contact details of the distributor as I'll give them a call to see whether this can be adapted for my needs.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Yes, you would need to have the bellhousing changed. This can be ordered from Sadev.

 

Here you go: http://www.swrmotorsport.com/main/6_speed_sequential.htm

[jonnie205 1]

that xu sadev bellhousing looks ideal as its for the gti6 engine and has the extra braccing on the bellhosuing to mate up to the gti6 sump. I assume that was for the touring car 306 and 406's

[chownr 0]

We spoke to Sadev at the Autosport show earlier this year and the upshot was that some of their FWD boxes (be they Citroen or Pug) are effectively a box for life. They have a generic casing with interchangeable bellhousings. As posted before give them a call and have a chat

 

Rich

[Batfink 201]

James - I'd be interested in what the gearlever and gear position light cost

[Sam 4]

that xu sadev bellhousing looks ideal as its for the gti6 engine and has the extra braccing on the bellhosuing to mate up to the gti6 sump. I assume that was for the touring car 306 and 406's

 

The touring cars use Xtrac as I shall be, Hewland in the old 405s and some 406s. It's a box that can handle more torque than the sadev. Downside is they are rarer and more expensive. I have all the necessary parts (inc the bellhousing):

Gear Lever | Position Pot (for display) | Gearbox Mount | Clutch & Fly | Driveshaft Mount | Bellhousing

 

As you can imagine these parts aren't cheap. All custom made by VLR apart from the clutch which is of course AP Racing. I've still not sourced the box but its ready to roll apart from that pretty much.

 

Theres a good few sites selling motorsport spares so just keep your eyes out for bits.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Sam

[pdd144c 0]

That will finish the car off nicely James, and after speaking to Sadev before they are very helpful as stated above! Any idea of ratios and final drive? I wouldn't worry about the splines for the clutch either, new plates aren't expensive.

[Batfink 201]

even a second hand sequential box ends up being expensive. I wouldnt like to add up what the total cost will end up being for me. £7k secondhand maybe once the box gets reconditioned and I have virtually all the bits including driveshafts. Lets see if it can give me an edge in the race series I'll be running in

Edited October 24, 2007 by Batfink

[JamesLumley 4]

Currently in discussions with both Sadev and the guy who's selling the box to try and work out a way to make it fit.

Failing that it's hand over a large wedge to xtrac and stump up for a new one.

 

Sam I'm not so worried about the torque output as my engine isn't turbo'd so less likely to turn the inside into chocolate! - my car also weighs bugger all compared to the old s1600 cars which were about 1150kg - I'm about 800kg at the moment with a slight move to about 900kg in the new shell.

 

Paul once you boys have worked your majic on my shell and we've finished building the new car over the winter, the gearbox is the "icing on the cake"!

The cost is not worth thinking about, I try to think of it in how much enjoyment I get from the development stages and that makes it worth it - never mind the driving!

I will soon hopefully have one of the fastest and most technically advanced 205s in the Uk which has been my dream since we first started out with this project nearly 6 years ago!

[Dj_mini 7]

What sort of price are you looking at for a complete set up from xtrac / sadev new if you dont mind me asking?

 

Cheers Dan

[pdd144c 0]

I'm looking forward to seeing it all finished James, when are you dropping the shell off? I think you should come out and do some circuit racing with it next year as well!

 

As a rough idea Dan the Hewland EGT 6 speed sequential comes in at £11765 plus bell housing and VAT! So not cheap...

[Sam 4]

I only mention the torque because they turned down one of the guys on another forum because his 2.0 longmans touring car EW engine produced high torque, too high for the box.

 

Are you going for a Paul spec cage?

[Batfink 201]

how much benefit time wise will the sequential box give you. apparently its about .5 sec per mile on a circuit

[JamesLumley 4]

Can't remember my torque output but I'll dig out the dyno graphs over the weekend and let you know.

 

Paul, shell is comming in some time at the end of November for a full Greg work over, just finalising exactly what's going to be done. Circuit racing is starting to sound more interesting as the tarmac rallies seem to be slowly dying out, also the costs involved with rallying are going through the roof!

 

Sam, cage is going to be full WRC spec so that's basically like Paul's but with a load more triangulation - mainly for safety.

 

A sequential box gives a massive difference in rallying as there are soo many gear changes involved, couldn't tell you exactly how much time but pulling down a straight for example, with a seq box, you can just keep going up through the gears where as with a std box, you're more likely to hold the lower gear and therefore be going slower.

 

Nik - we'll have to get a projects page going and I'll give a complete run down of what's been done thus far and where we're going with the new shell.

[Sam 4]

Sounds similar to the one going in my 306.

[Tom_Fowler 0]

How much time is a sequential gearbox worth? This is basically like asking how long a piece of string is. If you only consider actual shift time and ignore the fact you need to carefully choose your gear ratios for the optimum operating rpm band for your engine, power output and drag co-efficient of your car. It will depend what H pattern gearbox you start with in the 1st place and what sequential gearbox you are changing to! For example the gearbox in the latest Subaru Impreza WRC is an H pattern box but the gearchange time will be a lot quicker than any most sequentials. A gear change is a very complicated operation that has to be timed to perfection and simply banging harshly between gears with a bit of engine cut does produce a fast shift, in fact contrary to popular believe a well timed clutch dip will speed up the gearchange time and therefore the whole operation has to be incredibly accurately timed combination of engine cut, gear barrel control and clutch actuation.

Another misleading part of this is quoted gearchange times making different gearboxs impossible to compare unless you have the information yourself for each box, for example what is gearchange time? The time to move from gear barrel position "X" to position "Y" or is it more appropriately time from engine torque cut at the wheels to engine torque returned at the wheels (be it by engine torque cut or clutch actuation which ever comes 1st and last). Both of these things are quoted for gearboxs but more commonly the former as this gives the shortest time but is not the actual time from loss of drive to return of drive in order to change gear.

 

In relation to rollcage spec, its not really possible to install a wrc spec rollcage into a shell that is complete, I think you would be surprised how a wrc shell is fabricated and no 205 road car conversion build could come close to the weight, stiffness and safety that is built into a good wrc shell!

 

Tom

[Batfink 201]

In the WRC rules do they have a weight penalty for sequential boxes though like the touring cars?

In competition there are many factors you have to work out. BMW run an H pattern as this offsets the weight penalty of RWD. A sequential box usually is heavier than a 5 speed dogbox too as they tend to be 6 speed only off the shelf. In rallying Citroen tested a 4 speed gearbox to save weight!

 

This is not so important in clubman racing as budget usually stops everyone trying to build the ultimate car and we can't spend loads on development and testing to compare different varients.

 

Basically the series I will be racing in are introducing sequential boxes next season and the organisers have estimated that you will gain half a second per mile advantage - this would only be down to shift time as the internals are not really that different. As long as the manufacturers measure their straight cut gearbox shift time the same way as the sequential then their tests are not so much of a waste of time right? It will certainly give you an idea..

 

Then add gear ratios and you've got more variation but i'd expect anyone with a straight cut gearbox to already be working out their optimum ratios they should be using.