Few Silly Q's Regarding Ms Set-up

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

hi all , been a while since i last posted or actually made any progress on the car as the little one has taken up so much of my time as of late, also working nights doesn't help.

i have planned all along to use emerald as my ecu choice for my xu10j4rs bike tb'd engine but having looked on their site recently i have noticed a large hike in price since the new k series unit has come out,as a result am considering using a megasquirt unit (built for me) , a few thing have crossed my mind though:

 

1: i was told by the bloke building it that i can use all my standard sensors and even use the original bike tps? true?

2: (sounding really dumb) how does the map work? and how does it connect to the ecu ? do i really need one?

3: (Sounding even dumber) Is it good idea to use a lambda sensor in the exhaust? if so from what motor should i get it from, i really should have picked it up when i got the engine but didn't think.

4: Also for an air temp sensor what would be the ideal choice of motor to get one from?

 

cheers in advance guys, still optimistic about getting the pug running before xmas

pete

[Alastairh 47]

1. True

2. don't really understand, the maps like a table in the ecu that the ecu reads and gets a value for fuelling related to other sensors.

3. Didn't see the point myself, tried using an innovate wideband LC-1 but it was a PITA and never worked properly, waste of money.

4. The ideal air temp sensor is listed on www.megasquirt.info But any sensor can be used if you have the data as all sensors in the MS are configurable.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

1. True

2. don't really understand, the maps like a table in the ecu that the ecu reads and gets a value for fuelling related to other sensors.

3. Didn't see the point myself, tried using an innovate wideband LC-1 but it was a PITA and never worked properly, waste of money.

4. The ideal air temp sensor is listed on www.megasquirt.info But any sensor can be used if you have the data as all sensors in the MS are configurable.

 

 

2. sorry after reading that itdidnt even make sense of it , i mean map sensor?

[Guest CottesmorePugnut]

The map sensor connects to the ecu from the manifold via a piece of vacum tubing to the map sensor on the underside of the pcb. You'll have to run the pipe through the bulkhead of the car.

[snillet 1]

hi all , been a while since i last posted or actually made any progress on the car as the little one has taken up so much of my time as of late, also working nights doesn't help.

i have planned all along to use emerald as my ecu choice for my xu10j4rs bike tb'd engine but having looked on their site recently i have noticed a large hike in price since the new k series unit has come out,as a result am considering using a megasquirt unit (built for me) , a few thing have crossed my mind though:

 

1: i was told by the bloke building it that i can use all my standard sensors and even use the original bike tps? true?

2: (sounding really dumb) how does the map work? and how does it connect to the ecu ? do i really need one?

3: (Sounding even dumber) Is it good idea to use a lambda sensor in the exhaust? if so from what motor should i get it from, i really should have picked it up when i got the engine but didn't think.

4: Also for an air temp sensor what would be the ideal choice of motor to get one from?

 

cheers in advance guys, still optimistic about getting the pug running before xmas

pete

 

1. yepp.

2. Mapsensor is usually onboard inside the MS box, sometimes people uses external ones but that is quite uncommon. There are a few tricks in how to connect the sensor to TB:s, wast amount of info on that on the MS forums, go there and search, very good source.

3. Lambdasensor makes tuning so much easier, For setting up a base running map a Narrowband one "works" but you´re better off with a wideband one, info about this is also present on the forums and in the megamanual. There is a excellet piece of software named Megalogviewer that helps you tune in your fuelmap from logging when driving, info....in the same places as mentioned above.

4. I have no idea really, mine comes from a 1.8 berlingo engine. It´s not critical as long as you know the values at different temps on it.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Do you have to run a MAP sensor with the MS ECU?

 

I thought they were more useful on turbo applications, and you could just use TPS and CAS on NA engines? I could be wrong on that one though, but I know I don't run a MAP sensor (not to be confused with the ECU Map in anyway )

 

Air temp sensors aren't that dear brand new, £12 from Emerald I think mine was.

 

Hope all is well with the little un Pete, I know what you mean about time constraints

[welshpug 1,622]

I cant see how a non AFM stystem would work well without a MAP sensor, but then all throttle body installations dont use one.

[Super Josh 4]

I cant see how a non AFM stystem would work well without a MAP sensor, but then all throttle body installations dont use one.

 

They use the throttle pot to measure Alpha-N load sensing. It's very common practice and you should be able to read about it all over the web or in a decent engine management book.

 

 

Josh

[jackherer 543]

Megasquirts support both MAP sensors and Alpha-N load sensing. Emeralds only do Alpha-N.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Brilliant thread Pete. Saw you xbox online the other day; should've chatted and/or raced against each other. Next time eh?

 

Good luck with your build. I have the joys of MS just waiting round the corner for me and your Q's and answers have helped me a great deal. Please post what components you find.

 

Incidentally - which MS board and version did you get, and how much pre-built?

 

Cheers & good luck - should be pretty tasty.

Edited February 6, 2008 by DrSarty

[Dream Weaver 2]

I cant see how a non AFM stystem would work well without a MAP sensor, but then all throttle body installations dont use one.

 

Quite easily, as mine has been running without issue for coming up 2 years now.

 

Megasquirts support both MAP sensors and Alpha-N load sensing. Emeralds only do Alpha-N.

 

My Emerald is wired in to use a MAP sensor if required - I wired the plug in and left it to one side for any future turbo upgrade When I did my loom, the threads and websites I read said MAP sensors were mainly for turbo engines.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

MAP sensors were mainly for turbo engines.

 

Not arguing - but why then does a GTi6 inlet have a MAP sensor?

[Dream Weaver 2]

They aren't exclusive to turbos and can be used on anything as an air flow sensor, I think what I read was that you need to use a MAP sensor on a turbo engine, but on an NA you can use either or it could be the other way round

 

Point is, its fine to run without a MAP sensor and use TPS instead, though I'd need to go back to my original info to check why I didn't use MAP.

 

None of this info is gospel btw, this is just how I did it on my own setup.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Dream Weaver

[jackherer 543]

My Emerald is wired in to use a MAP sensor if required

 

I've been misinformed then, and I should have realised as emeralds are used on boosted engines so must be able to work with MAPs.

 

Not arguing - but why then does a GTi6 inlet have a MAP sensor?

 

As do most modern NA cars in fact.

[brianthemagical 1]

map isn't usually on bodied cars as there are multiple air inlets, meaning it's messy and extra work to get the map sensor connected. map is better as it sences what the engine is doing, not the throttle.

[pugrallye 0]

Most modern...ish cars run a map sensor more of a belts and braces reason though, normally used as a 'check' sensor, but have always wired up all aftermarket systems in the past using a map and a tps (dont forget on MS MAp is built into ECU) and seems to work fine.. horses for courses though!

Edited February 6, 2008 by pugrallye

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

MP3.1 has MAP & TPS as standard & thast quite an old system now.

 

The MAP sensor is built into the ecu where the later MM8p systems have an electric feedback to the ecu from a standalone MAP sensor.

 

Graham.