Vauxhall Red Top Into 205 ?

[gtimon 0]

Seen a Mini with a Vauxhall red top motor and gearbox shoe horned into it.

 

Could one be pushed into a 205, has anyone seen or done it, with more power potential.????

[Doof 11]

Aren't they very similar to an Mi16 engine which is a straight swop? Seems completely pointless given the amount of work require to fit one...and dont they fit vertically in the bay?

[gtimon 0]

thxs

 

It was just a thought that came up in a conversation the other day, where someone mentioned the power output of these engines when fully tuned.

[welshpug 1,622]

thxs

 

It was just a thought that came up in a conversation the other day, where someone mentioned the power output of these engines when fully tuned.

 

 

which is about the same as a tuned Mi/gti6.

[brianthemagical 1]

or type-r.

[Bonzai 2]

ive seen pictures, a long long time ago, of a portugese 205 with a c20let in the front.

[Powers 13]

Not sure what type r!

But yes i agree pretty pointless, however there are a lot of highly tuned NA engines floating about for not a lot of money.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Back in days of yore when I was sad enough to buy s*itty magazines like Redline, I'm sure in one of there Rolling Road features there was a 205 with a 2.0 16v Vauxhall engine in it.

 

And when I first moved to Edinburgh a guy in my street who had a 205 GT came over to chat one day and said he knew a local guy who worked in a garage who had stuck 2.0 16v Calibre engine in a GTI.

[brianthemagical 1]

Not sure what type r!

But yes i agree pretty pointless, however there are a lot of highly tuned NA engines floating about for not a lot of money.

 

my point was that a type r engine (thats all i know it as) has already been put in a 309 by, from what i've read on this forum, a very competent mechanic. therefore most of the niggles would be worked out and it would be alot simpilar than a new engine conversion.

 

i'spose any type r engine will be good enough, i don't know owt about them but i do know they are pretty good, and more than likely better than a vauxhall.

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

I used to have a Nova that I put a redtop in. was a bit on the rapid side, but it rusted faster than it traveled.

 

It decided to snap the belt twice.

 

Heap of s*ite vauxhall crap bollocks.

[welshpug 1,622]

my point was that a type r engine (thats all i know it as) has already been put in a 309 by, from what i've read on this forum, a very competent mechanic. therefore most of the niggles would be worked out and it would be alot simpilar than a new engine conversion.

 

i'spose any type r engine will be good enough, i don't know owt about them but i do know they are pretty good, and more than likely better than a vauxhall.

 

 

yeah, sandy309 has used a 2.2 Accord type R engine, Spoox have done a 2.0 Type R IIRC (it maybe an integra lump)

 

and someone out there is doing a RWD S2000 powered 309, which I'm sure sando knows somethign about? am I right sandy?

[Powers 13]

No, my point was what type r makes as little power as a redtop!

I know extremely well just how good modern type r engines are.

[large 33]

No, my point was what type r makes as little power as a redtop!

I know extremely well just how good modern type r engines are.

 

 

Red top 150bhp. Type r 197bhp

[Sandy 189]

I've used the 2.2 Accord engine in mine, it's 209bhp out of the box, but on TB's I'm getting about 230bhp/185lbft.

 

I'm building with a friend another 309 with a Civic Type-R 2.0, which is 197bhp out of the box, but that will be on TB's too, so slightly more.

 

Colin (who I work with), is building the S2000 RWD 309, which is a project I planned but passed on due to funds/time. But it is progressing and will feature full S2000 running gear with fully rose jointed double wishbone suspension etc.

 

I'm not aware of what Spoox are doing exactly, but the pictures on their website feature a 306 with the 1.8 Integra engine, which is typically 190bhp out of the box.

 

John Read (JRE), a friend of mine, builds a huge number of successful Vauxhall Redtop competition engines and he's a firm believer the XU 16v's are superior in many ways.

[damien 22 1 Cars]

theres a chap on the 306 forum with a red top in a 306

[Sandy 189]

I've said all this before, but to qualify why I'm so hung up on Honda engines...

*Power, to get the power/torque mine's giving (with just TB's and a standalone ECU on a standard engine) from an XU would mean TB's, standalone ECU, cams, sensibly solid lifters, headwork, pistons, sensibly rods too, an exhaust manifold, rebuild etc.

 

*Smoothness, even a very well built standard Peugeot or Vauxhall engine 4 cylinder engine wouldn't match the smoothness that Honda engines have as standard, especially the H series I have, with its twin balancer shafts.

 

*Economy, I'm getting 27-35mpg urban-long distance, averaging 30mpg solidly. The beauty of VTEC is having two engines in one basically! A standard Mi6 is slightly better, but a 230bhp one would be firmly in the low 20's mpg.

 

*Reliability, the basic design, materials and manufacturing tolerances of Honda engines are far better than European engines on the whole. Failures are rare and almost always down to unreasonable treatment.

 

*Gearbox, the BE is pretty good but the MA is crap, but the BE isn't a patch on the shift quality of Honda boxes and the Honda cable shift is a effective and easy to mount. Many Honda Type-R boxes come with standard gear type LSDs.

 

Fitting the engine obviously isn't easy, but surely about the same as a Vauxhall Red top! There's an obsession with the Red top that is IMO a bit misplaced these days, there are many superior alternatives that are cheap, easy to tune, reliable and lighter.

[Butler 0]

I totally agree with sandy's logic. Sean Mckwowen should have put a type r lump in his 205. He had the budget. By now he would have done dozens of track days, not been banned from the forum, got more power, more reliablity. etc etc etc

 

If I even get a job were I don't need to a company car, I fancy building a 205 rallye with a type r lump, cage stripped blah blah. Makes so much sense. I am convinced fabricated engine mounts and driveshafts are less of a headache then oil surge, lumpy cams, ecu mapping etc etc that you get from big power mi and 8v xu conversions. Or maybe sandy has made it look easy.

[Sandy 189]

It's not easy, but if you have access to a first class fabricator, that understands what they are doing, it's much easier. After that, the wiring and plumbing is typical engine conversion.

 

I was going to put it in my old 205 Rallye at one point, mostly so I could badge it 205 Type-Rallye It's easier in a 309, there's a bit more space and the front lower crossmember is chunkier, which matters; but it would be do-able in a 205.

[Bonzai 2]

I think the c20xe (redtop) hype mostly comes from the kitcar market, but these days it seems to have been superseded by the ford duratec lumps

[WildCards 0]

Welshpug, Sandy, the 306 on Spoox website is nothing to do with them. Darrens cousin, Mark has created that little rocket all on his own. He bought a bog standard front end write off 306 and over the last 2 years or so has put in a DC2 engine and gearbox into it amongst other track related modifications, it's cost him the best part of a brand new CTR, but it's a hell of alot faster in all aspects. If anyone wants more info i'll give him a shout and start a new thread for details instead of spamming this one.

[Sandy 189]

Why is it on their website? Wasn't it featured in Retro or the other one that looks like CCC?

[WildCards 0]

Why is it on their website? Wasn't it featured in Retro or the other one that looks like CCC?

 

I don't know why it's on the Spoox website, but whatever the reason, the images and info are out of date, so don't pay too much attention to it. The car was in PPC as a readers cars project last year, it hasn't appeared anywhere else as far as I know. I mentioned it to you before Sandy when you were finishing your 309, I also sent Mark the link as he was quite interested in what you were doing.

[number2301 1 1 Cars]

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/pug16v.htm - Puma racing compares the Mi to the XE here, first paragraph says it all!

[Sandy 189]

There's a lot more to it than valve area.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Something like this? Although a C20LET but very similar to an XE.