Mi 16 Wont Work (help Needed)

[tombo 0]

over the weekened i converted my 1.9 gti to an mi16

the engine has been rebuilt and everything seems to be ok, now the loom and everything from the fueling to the exhaust manifold came from a working 205mi16.

 

yet the damn thing just will not fire up, leads are all in the right fireing order, everything is brand new, the timing is spot on as everything lines up in the locating plugs.

 

it did actually run in the beging, but you could hear detination on tickover, yet wen rev to a constant 2k she sounded and ran spot on. yet try and rev her more and the engine dies.

 

problems i have spotted so far list as

 

1) compression is 230+ in each cylinder

2) no vacum in the inlet, as the fuel pressure regualtor is running constant 3 bar but when you blow and sick the vacum pipe to the FPR the pressure goes up and down which would indicate this is working.

3) just before she dies when going above 2k she seemed to be blowing air through the AFM out the filter.

 

just some advice would be needed as this seems to me to be something to do with cam timing and the valves not opening and closing correctly, but how can this be out with the timing markers for the engine?

 

help me someone please

[yeti-dj 7]

hello, i know you say that the plug leads are in the right order but it sounds exactly the same as my Mi16 when we started her for the first time. There was a point where it sounded ok but then died with a pop and a bang coming through the air flow meter.

 

We stupidly thought it was the same firing order as the gti but its not.

 

hope this helps,

[Mikey G 3]

We stupidly thought it was the same firing order as the gti but its not.

 

hope this helps,

1-3-4-2 with number 1 being the flywheel end. We have explored all avenues of timing and it has all been checked 2 or 3,4 even 5 or more times!

 

I have been working on this car all weekend and i'm very dissapointed that at the moment it has beat me. 2 problems i have identified have been the high compression and the lack of inlet manifold vacuum.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

both of them things would point toward cam timing but not specifically together and also if cam timing was out that far I doubt it would of started in the first instance. Is the crank sensor OK? What has been changed with the engine since it was running in a 205 mi16?

[Mikey G 3]

The ecu, wiring and all sensors are from a working 205 mi16, the only reason they were removed from that car was terminal destruction

 

So far we have changed ECU and ECU temp sender, and crank position sensor. Various wires and connections have been swapped and put back.

 

I am thinking dodgy lifters although when it does fire up there is no top end rattle. I would like to measure the chambers to see if someone has over skimmed the head but we are exploring more possibilities before resorting to another strip down.

[whizzer71 0]

230 psi sounds a bit high to me...?,but then surely if it was running fine in the other car and all youve done is remove it from one and installed it in the other then it has to be something you have done ?

Have you changed ANYTHING between taking it from one car and installing it in the other however insignificant ?

Is the cam belt tight?,and is the cam timing defo spot on ,lifters dont over pump unless youve had them out and put them back in again without squeezing the oil out of them I.E. changing the cams.

Also highly unlikely but has one of the cam woodruffs sheared?,have known it to happen in the past.

Try changing the ign coil,sometimes when these go down it completely throws the timing out and can give symptoms similar to what you are describing still gives a good spark at atmospheric pressure but as soon as its back in the cylinder it goes really weak....again has happend to me in the past

Good luck!

 

Edited May 31, 2007 by whizzer71

[Mikey G 3]

The engine was not seen running before being rebuilt, the rings were all gummed up and the bearings were worn, this is a different engine to what we had running in another car. All the wiring was working in another 205 Mi16 before that NOT THE ENGINE as i said earlier.

 

Woodruff keys are worth a check i suppose, coil is fairly new.

[whizzer71 0]

Have you tried fitting the original fuel pressure reg back on,Are the bores getting washed due to over fuelling because the rings arent bedded back in yet,Did you fit new rings or just free up the originals ?

[Mikey G 3]

All the parts were taken off a previously working 205 Mi16 including manifolds, fuel rail and injectors. The only difference is the actual engine itself. This was rebuilt with new rings in rehoned bores and new bearings and any gaskets and seals. The ring gaps were checked before fitting and were within all tolerances, oil was applied to bores before being all fitted up.

We have another FPR but havent tried it as we can manually drop the fuel pressure by applying a vacuum to it as the inlet doesnt seem to get a vacuum itself. There appears to be no leaks and no blockages in the inlet at all. It is overfueling as it floods trying to start it, when we did get it running as Tombo has said it would only run at 2krpm, as soon as you tried to rev it or ease off the throttle it would struggle to run, idle was very lumpy and slow. Adjusting the fueling in any sort of way has made no affect on the running, even if we take the top off the AFM and hold the flap in any position to get a response from the engine, it just dies.

 

We didnt do a compression test before starting only after the problem seemed to get worse, rings may have bedded in somewhat now which has amplified our high compression problem and may now be the reason we cannot get it to start at all now.

 

Tombo has someone coming this weekend to take a look at it but i have a feeling he will come to the same conclusion as me, that is the high compression is causing the engine to over compress the mixture and the spark cant fire it. I am sure the problem is in the valve train and cylinder head area and i just want to rip it apart and check it as that is the only part of the engine we didnt touch during the rebuild.

[whizzer71 0]

I had a old phase 2 Bx 16v Gti years ago and the head on that was skimmed so far down (because of corrosion) that when they finished skimming it they had caught the valve seats and the valves protruded just out below the line of the head surface.

Bloody thing flew when I reassembled it I was concerned that I might of had a clash situation at high revs but there was no probs whatsoever.

 

Edited May 31, 2007 by whizzer71

[tombo 0]

YAY she works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

big thanks out to mikey g for gettin his hands dirty with me and getting this machine going.

 

as i said previously we didnt touch the head as it came from a fully assembled engine. but something wasnt right to have such high compression.

 

i had to do the unwanted and take the head off for a look, there didnt seem to be indication of it being overskimmed which was very odd for it to have such hich compression. so just a quick check we thought of WIZZERS comment about woodruff keys, so we undid the cam pulleys and took them off.

 

what do we find no f**king woodruff keys even there, so lucky no valves had bent etc. so to cut a long story short we put some keys in, reasembled the engine and boom, fires up and is clean as a whistle. running beautiful in fact.

 

who ever put it together last time i mean the head, needs to be shot, raped and pillaged for a mistake like that. i the lesson for me and others, is to check absolutely evrything next time.

 

well happy with my new car now. glad she back with a new heart.

 

thanks for your help people

 

tombo

[whizzer71 0]

Glad my experience can be of help !

 

[Mikey G 3]

It is just so annoying we took the head back off in the first place, never take for granted that a previously built engine works, we were lucky nothing hit very hard.

What kind of an idiot leaves out the camshaft woodruff keys???? before we took it apart the whole engine was built including the timing......

Edited June 2, 2007 by Mikey G

[Discostu 6]

I supply u with all my old bits AND the life saving woodruff keys and i dont even get a mention?

 

Glad u finally got it running tho tombo, u can try chasing me now

[tombo 0]

ok ok credit is due!!!!!!!!!!

 

thanks disco (2stone) stu for all your help with the project and haveing all the mi16 spares that you had in finishing my car.

 

you should start your own peugeot dealership lol call it the french connection lol.

 

thanks mate hows that?

 

tombo

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

We stupidly thought it was the same firing order as the gti but its not.

Firing order is exactly the same on the Mi as it is on the 8v, so are the HT lead positions on the distributor cap.

 

Graham.