Which Head Should I Go For?

[jonnygoodhand 0]

As I'm currently having issues with my cylinder head (I may have been sold a dud!), I'm considering swapping it for a more suitable one.

 

I've recently had a TU3s 1360 engine fitted and have read elsewhere in this forum that a Black Top head is possibly the way forward. Rather than persist with my current head, I thought I'd go this route.

 

Problem is, I've also recently purchased this manifold from TI Motorsport and wondered if this would still be compatible? Also, a quick search on eBay doesn't bring up many 106 XSi heads, but there is this early Saxo VTR head for sale. Would this be suitable?

 

Thanks, John.

[danpug 1]

I dont think you could use that manifold. You are probably better off selling that manifold and getting another suitable for the vtr/xsi/rallye head, unless you are considering sticking with the standard head. That head in the link is the correct one afaik but its a fair bit of dosh!

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

that is a bit expensive but judging by previous threads jonnygoodhand is sumwhat of a millionaire lol

[Jrod 7]

I think the Tu3s manifold does fit. at least I gope it does...

 

VTR etc manifolds won't fit as they dont have the bend to clear the 205 subframe.

[stu_woac 1]

if you want a good power head I have one sat around its the tu3s head needs vavle springs and came tho been on my car and saw a healthy 110bhp at the wheels with cam and twin 40s plus some sercrets I changed the head due to having a slightly better one made for me by a btcc engine builder cheaply

[Sam 4]

The TU5 head is the one to go for if you want decent power. Unfortunately the inlet for a TU3 does not fit but the exhaust is the same (as are all 8v TU).

[Jrod 7]

You could always Ebay that inlet or try to sell it on here?

With the amount you have spent It would be a shame to have less power because of head choice.

 

That saxo head seems very expensive, I'm getting mine off sandy for almost half that and thats including the inlet manifold.

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

if u do end up selling that inlet , i got first dibs on it

[jonnygoodhand 0]

that is a bit expensive but judging by previous threads jonnygoodhand is sumwhat of a millionaire lol

 

I wish that was the case! It's all beginning to add up to a bit too much, so I might opt for an XS head in the short-term and upgrade to a blacktop and new manifold later.

 

That is unless someone knows to a cheap VTR/XSI head going?

 

my car and saw a healthy 110bhp at the wheels

 

Saying that, I'd be more than happy with Stu's 110hp at the wheels, so a Blacktop may not be needed!

[Sandy 189]

It's easier to get the CR up with the earlier heads, smaller chamber.

[stu_woac 1]

but harder to time up due to the cr LOL but get it right they love it

[TKH 0]

I should wan you against getting heads off ebay. There are only a few people I would trust to port my head. Out of them the ones the general public can deal with are GMC and Longman.

 

If I was you I would sell your manifold. Get a black top Saxo VTR, AX GTI, 106 XSI or 106 S2 Rallye (not s1) head. As they flow so much better.

 

But swapping heads will lower your compression so you really want a set of higher comp pistons out of the AX GTI or 106 1.4 XSI. There are many TUs that use flat top pistons as well that could work OK if you skim the head.

[Sam 4]

You realise that the S1 Rallye head is identical to the S2 Rallye. VERY minor casting differences which do effect the performance of the head. Of course I have no flow bench but had an S1 & S2 head next to each other.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Sam

[TKH 0]

Yes as you say its only minor differences out side, but its enough to be a pain at times. A lot of tuners have never seen them before and they can mess up. Countless times people have sent me the wrong parts for a S1 rallye. One of the big differences is the core casting. So you end up requiring marginally different port shapes when porting. Also the Rallye heads tend to sell for a lot more and are harder to get hold of. All bad points really. Thats not to say the S1 head is bad at all. If your redirecting the inlet ports its actually probably the one to go for. But for the most part I would recommend people to go for the cheap and readily available cast especially as for most people it works the best any way.

[jonnygoodhand 0]

I've taken my car along to Des-Developments (not far from me) to have a proper look at.

 

He's under the impression that the cylinder head is OK, but it looks as if I need new pistons and piston rings!

 

As I've already spend a fortune on the car, I'm not too happy! But, it's certainly made me more determined to get it just right. As I've mentioned before, my car has a TU3s bottom end and head, but running twin webbers. Currently the power's down to 74bhp! So the next step has to be fitting a modified Black Top and XSI Pistons (I think?).

 

Does anyone know what inlet manifolds are available for this set up? Would a TU24 one be up for the job?

 

Also, is there anybody out there who is able to source the above parts and fit them for me? Please PM if you're intrested.

 

Cheers.

[bren_1.3 1]

i'd go about finding a 106 XSi engine. rather than more mismatching of parts. use the head and pistons from one of those rather than using a saxo head.

 

a TU24 inlet wont fit a 106 XSi or any other head for that matter.

 

i'd go about sourcing parts yourself and ask DES-Developments to fit it all for you. At least you know you wont get shafted again if you choose them to do the work for you.

[Sandy 189]

The 106 XSi engine is iron blocked and weighs 23kg more than the alloy equivalent. It's a ridiculous weight gain in the worst part of the car (bar the roof ). It's not a major to use the XSi components with an alloy block and worth the work IMO.

[jonnygoodhand 0]

Sounds like a plan!

 

Just got to find a decent XSI engine to rip the parts from now...

 

Also, will I need a custom manifold made? Previous replies have ruled out my current one and you say the 205 Rallye (TU24) is not suitable either?

[Sandy 189]

I have a DCOE onto 106XSi/Rallye head I made a couple years ago that I probably don't need anymore. It's 150mm long face to face, which gives a nice staright tract shape. Alloy.

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

my offer still stands about buying your old inlet off you if you want to get some of your money back let me know ..

[Rippthrough 98]

While we are on the subject does anyone have a rallye head I can purchase?

 

Bought a flange for the early spaced rallye heads to fit throttle bodies and forgot that my XS head uses different spacing, doh!

 

Unless someone wants the flange?

[TKH 0]

The 106 XSi engine is iron blocked and weighs 23kg more than the alloy equivalent. It's a ridiculous weight gain in the worst part of the car (bar the roof ). It's not a major to use the XSi components with an alloy block and worth the work IMO.

 

It does look like that on the face of it and its very true that it weighs more. Until you realise that quite a bit more power can be had out of the Iron block and more so when you realise how much more reliable it will be that it looks attractive once more. I have a 1360cc iron block running approximately 130bhp at the wheels and that has raced for over 3 years now with no significant work. I say approximately as it varies every time its been tested. I should also note its in a Citroen AX so running a short inlet. It was running considerably more power originally but proved to have to narrow a powerband for the 5 speed box it was limited to. The only rear problem was it was when the cover for the air filters was damaged and moisture got in to the Alpha throttle bodies and seized them up. That and it cam have a habit of flooding if the battery is not fully charged and the engine does not fire first time but then its a old setup and has no lambda control. But none of that is to do with the block. If you tray to get close to that on a alloy block you will have real problems with the head gasket blowing and its not uncommon to have the liners dropping through the bottom of the alloy deck they are seated on.

[Sandy 189]

I don't mean to be rude, but are you baseing that statement on experience? Statistically i've found the Alloy blocked TU to be no less reliable than the Iron block. I think it's fair to say you can get away with more with the Iron block and it's more tolerant of crude assembly, but I don't buy that it's more reliable overall.

 

There's a lot of hearsay and assumed wisdom around about TU engines, especially on forums. most of which seems to radiate from a certain Saxo forum.

[Rippthrough 98]

I don't mean to be rude, but are you baseing that statement on experience? Statistically i've found the Alloy blocked TU to be no less reliable than the Iron block. I think it's fair to say you can get away with more with the Iron block and it's more tolerant of crude assembly, but I don't buy that it's more reliable overall.

 

There's a lot of hearsay and assumed wisdom around about TU engines, especially on forums. most of which seems to radiate from a certain Saxo forum.

 

 

There's certainly some strange theories on that one.

[swordfish210 20]

While we are on the subject does anyone have a rallye head I can purchase?

 

I'll have an XT head you can buy soon enough, only trouble is it will be attached to a rallye block