309 Wishbones And Rear Beam

[Longfield 0]

The're around £300 excl VAT. But I'm thinking there's got to be a benefit to them but no one appears to be using them? Hence my question why most folks use 309 wishbones rather than rose jointed ones... but given the couple of responses above it's purely down to cost?

[Tom_Fowler 0]

The regulations for some series will prevent the use of adjustable wishbones and so the use of 309 wishbones is a way of getting -ve camber using standard looking parts. Cost is more likely to be why they are used on trackday cars for example, as there is no regulations and adjustment for track conditions is not really required.

 

On rally cars the use of rose jointed wishbones is as much about safety as performance as the standard ball joint (be it in a 309 wishbone or 205 wishbone) has a nasty habit of snapping. And if they don't snap they soon wear out and start to knock. And its a bonus that you can adjust them for gravel, tarmac, wet, dry and cambered road surfaces etc.

[boombang 2]

I know a lot of people who run 205 rallycars and none of them use rosejointed wishbones.

 

Only time I've seen them break was in a side on impact with a kerb which wrote the car off anyhow.

[Tom_Fowler 0]

Peugeot Sport realised the problem thats why they made the Group N joints with a notch for the pinch bolt rather than 360 degree cut out. I did one tarmac rally on standard joints before they started to knock.

 

During developement and testing of the current Group N Fiesta we had problems with the joints on that too so I designed a new bolt for them. The bottom ball joint is a definate weak point in any road car suspension that is designed purely with low cost, ease of manufacture and assembly in mind.

[Rippthrough 98]

Problem with rose jointed wishbones is that they will wear out very quickly over rough surfaces/potholes.

[Tom_Fowler 0]

If you go for a proper rose joint in a big enough size with a boot on you can get about 10 gravel rallys out of them as long as you service them after each event which is always a good idea with all parts to check for damage. These joints do not come cheap though about £90 each.

 

An alternative I am currently working on is to machine a custom body that takes a standard joint insert, that way the joints can be replaced for around £20.

[Rippthrough 98]

If you go for a proper rose joint in a big enough size with a boot on you can get about 10 gravel rallys out of them as long as you service them after each event which is always a good idea with all parts to check for damage. These joints do not come cheap though about £90 each.

 

An alternative I am currently working on is to machine a custom body that takes a standard joint insert, that way the joints can be replaced for around £20.

 

 

Depends what you drop into sideways, ours used to last about 10minutes, just use polybushes on tubular wishbones these days, much easier.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Rippthrough

[Tom_Fowler 0]

For sure this will not include unusually big impacts and this is based on using rose joints to replace the bottom ball joints on a standard wishbone with pug inner bushes. Had a lot of problems with poly bushes going oval in about 10 miles so went back to pug rubbers in the end and found these were the best.

[Longfield 0]

would you actually get the same wear issues though if your vehicle's only a track vehicle and not a rally car?

[Tom_Fowler 0]

Wear on tarmac is much lower and so in track use the joints would last much longer. The biggest factor in wearing suspension joints is muck getting in and on gravel events you tend to get a muddy watery paste that acts like a grinding paste right inside the bearing. In muddy conditions focus wrc suspension bearings can be worn out in 100Km.

[Rippthrough 98]

You'd be fine for a track car, but you'd kill them very quickly on the roads.

[Anulfo 22]

Ok im digging up an old thread but the topic relates to my question.

As i've spent a fair bit of time trying to get the suspension set up correct on my 205 sprint car i have tried various different set ups.Finally opting for the Bilstein coilovers with tarmac springs and insert,also going for the 309 GTi wishbones and driveshafts and rose jointing of the top mounts.Some guys in the motorsport world have said that with the 309 wishbone setup it puts undue stress on the driveshafts and you will probably go through driveshafts at a fair rate!!!

Any guys experienced such problems?

Obviously this set up is non adjustable when it comes to the amount of neg camber and i guess the way to go is rose jointed group A wishbones and eccentric top mounts.

Your opinions please?