24seven 104 Posted March 11, 2007 ok so after owning a 205 for a year and never driving one, mine is starting up and firing on all 4. though I think the dizzy timing is out but that's a different story. for the first few minutes of running until it warmed up, it was lumpy bust slowly seemed to clear up and now idles smoothly although a bit high. now when I turn it on, after a few seconds a horrible high pitch/grinding ish sounding noise starts. sounds a bit like dragging your nails down a blackboard. Bearing in mind the thing's been sat for a year with mayo in the bottom end and no water. The thermostat works, but I've not had it hot enough to see if any more mayo is getting into the header tank. Another thing is the engine sounds VERY tappy. the head has been reshimmed so it's not that, but there's a distinctly loud tapping noise coming form it and there's no lack of oil getting to the cams. aren't these engines (XU5) pretty tappy anyway though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim21070 2 Posted March 11, 2007 Two things spring to mind. Alternator or cambelt. The former can be tested by running with the alternator belt off. I'd say the cambelt is either very tight, very loose or the tensioner roller is on the way out. Another possibility, given how long it has been idle is the waterpump. TBH, I'd change waterpump, cambelt and tensioner roller as a matter of course without delay. No, the XU5 should not sound tappy at all. A bit noisy at the top end but not tappy. Have your cam cover off and ensure you have a good supply of oil up there and that all the holes in the oil spray bar are clear. Then check your valve clearances. 0.25mm inlet and 0.35mm exhaust max. They're smim adjusted and the procedure looks fearsome. In practice it is not difficult. I have an excel spreadsheet to help calculate new shim thicknesses if they need adjustment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 11, 2007 thanks for that. I've had a rethink and I'm thinking the cambelt tensioner is too tight. all belts and tensioners were replaced (head gasket failure, car was left sitting for ages so it made sense to change that sorta stuff). How hard is the waterpump to get at with the engine in? It sounded like it was from that sorta direction but i couldn't work out why the noise would go away if the engine was stopped for a few minutes then slowly fade back in after about 10 seconds of running (also this noise didn't happen at all when we first started up. engine took a few minutes to clear up and was misfiring for a bit, but that's all cleared now). I'll change that definately as a matter of course, like you said. The valve clearances are spot on as the head was completely rebuilt when it was off. teh cams themselves are clean with no obvious signs of serious wear, through one of them looks a little pointier than the others so I think it may be a regrind not done perfectly. No shortage of oil up there either, and yeah it's top end taping it's making. Thanks again. VERY much appreciated! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nick 3 Posted March 11, 2007 Are you sure it's not just the interior heater fan? Nick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bassman 1 Posted March 11, 2007 Are you sure it's not just the interior heater fan? Nick Definitely worth checking the interior heater fan, makes a god-awful squealing noise when the bearings have dried up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 11, 2007 nah it's defo a loud squealing from teh engine bay. Thinking about it, maybe the cam belt tensioner is a bit loose. teh head needed 25thou skimming off just to clean it up when it was off, so maybe that's made teh cambelt a bit slacker than it should be. That said, I remember my dad thinking the belt was a bit too slack when we put the new tensioner on (his opinion is a good one to follow, he's stripped and rebuilt a number of engines in his time) so I think we force tightened it when we bolted it down. can't remember if we changed our minds or not afterwards tho. would the head skim actually have that big an impact on the effective length of the belt so that the tensioner would be a bit slack without a little push? how hard is the waterpump to replace with the engine in? relly don't want to have to take it out again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 11, 2007 Video of the engine starting and the noise that fades in (.3gp file, opens with quicktime). Would over advanced ignition timing make it chase up to 2k RPM like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim21070 2 Posted March 12, 2007 How hard is the waterpump to get at with the engine in? It sounded like it was from that sorta direction but i couldn't work out why the noise would go away if the engine was stopped for a few minutes then slowly fade back in after about 10 seconds of running (also this noise didn't happen at all when we first started up. engine took a few minutes to clear up and was misfiring for a bit, but that's all cleared now). I'll change that definately as a matter of course, like you said. The valve clearances are spot on as the head was completely rebuilt when it was off. teh cams themselves are clean with no obvious signs of serious wear, through one of them looks a little pointier than the others so I think it may be a regrind not done perfectly. No shortage of oil up there either, and yeah it's top end taping it's making. Thanks again. VERY much appreciated! Talk about the noise a partially seized fan can make. Blood curdling!!! Cam belts can make horrible noises when both too tight and loose. Taking as much off the head as you have can really challange the tensioner and also cause timing errors due to the change in distance between cam sprockets. You'd be surprised at how loose a correctly tensioned belt actually appears to be. On purpose as they tighten up as the engine warms and expands and thus increases the distance between cam sprockets. Water pump is not too bad. The cambelt has to come off to get to it but you have to go there anyway. You'll find it can be just about worked out by carefully jacking the engine down after taking off the top mount. Take care to clean the gasket face on the block very thoroughly. A blunt wood chisel is the ideal tool for this. The cam noise will be down to the camshaft itself. They wear very badly on a 1.6 (XU5) and wear is not particularly visible. It can be replaced with a 1.9 cam which is very much less prone to wear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 12, 2007 I thought the 1.6 and 1.9 camshafts were diffrerent profiles? I think it's a fairly recent regrind anyway. the buckets look pretty new as well. Thinking I'll slacken teh tensioner and make sure it's not too tight. if it's way loose I mght try firce tightening it a little. waterpump is gonna be changed whatever. Thanks for the help . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 12, 2007 (edited) ok so I've slackened the tensioner off and it was tighter than it pulls itself to. left it at it's own tension, bolted back up and started. same noise again. I start work at 3:45 so I'll have to have another look at it tomorrow. something odd is that the belt looks a bit scrubbed on the smooth side, but the tensioner is running free and it's a new belt. no idea what that's about. Apart from that there's no odd lumpiness in the engine now (except a blowy exhaust gasket somewhere, which I'm 100% sure is the downpipe-manifold join). Much of it seems to have cleared, but I really need to have it running up to temperature as it's still smokey and full of mayo and that needs flushing out asap! Edited March 12, 2007 by 24Seven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted March 13, 2007 ok the cambelt tensioner has been released and yeah it was pushing the belt more then the spring alone was doing, but now the belt feels VERY slack, and it hasn't cured the noise. I'm thinking water pump so I'll order one from pugspares now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
