I've Read Most Of The Rear Beam Posts.....

[mikey_p 0]

I've read a whole load of posts about rear beam rebuilds etc. etc. and what are the symptoms of a knackered rear beam, but there seemed so much info that i've been left even more confused then when I started. I know you can never tell how extensive the rear beam damage is unless it's taken apart but

basically there are a number of things with my car that I think could signify a knackered rear beam. Mainly:

 

-Apparently when i'm driving it looks like a have a lot of camber (on both sides I assume, as my friend would have mentioned it being only on one side)

 

-The offside/rear suspension/beam creaks when the car is pushed from the side, and also sometimes just after parking up. Although I think I also have a seized break on this side (as wheel does not turn freely when car jacked up). However after I gave the car a good work out on a track it did not creak when the car was pushed from the side.

 

-There is a knocking sound coming from the rear when driving over bumps etc.

 

-The car seems to handle well and the back does not want to step out even when provoked. I managed it on a wet and greasy snetterton, but it does not appear to be as tail happy and dangerous as everyone makes the 1.9 GTI to be.

 

Now to a few questions

 

Apparently if there is camber then the beam is beyond refurbishment, so I would have to buy a replacement, then refurbish that one right? Or buy a refurbished one already?

 

I've seen a lot of people talk about the 309 beam being a good upgrade but what is the benefit of the 309 beam over the 205?

 

The car has only done 84,000 miles, is this still far enough for the rear beam to be totally knackered? As I know many pugs to be in the 1.5k's

 

Sorry for another rear beam post.

 

Cheers

Mike

[M@tt 77]

By the sounds of it your beam is on its way out

 

As you say camber and creaking are all give away signs.

 

It all depends on whether the beam shafts have totally worn through the bearings and have started to oval the tube as to whether its totally unrepairable.

 

But you're more than liklely looking at 2 new shafts and 2 sets of bearings as a minimum

 

84k is a reasonable distance for the beams to start to fail on depending on their former life.

 

Pro's of a 309 beam upgrade can be found with a search however in brief. It's wider and has thicker torsion bars which stiffenes up the backend slightly and also helps to reduce the likelihood that it steps out when you don't want it to.

[max0 5]

Now to a few questions

 

Apparently if there is camber then the beam is beyond refurbishment, so I would have to buy a replacement, then refurbish that one right? Or buy a refurbished one already?

 

The only way to answer that question is to inspect the beam you already have and see if it can be refurbish with new shafts bearings seals etc. If the tube is worn then another will need to be found and you will most likly still need new shafts bearing seals etc

I've seen a lot of people talk about the 309 beam being a good upgrade but what is the benefit of the 309 beam over the 205?

 

The 309 is wider and fatter torsion bars, This (according to some) helps improve the handling of the 205.

The car has only done 84,000 miles, is this still far enough for the rear beam to be totally knackered? As I know many pugs to be in the 1.5k's

 

mine was fooked after about 95k miles. If it hasnt been looked at i would say it will need a rebuild, You could be lucky and just need bearing/seals or you could be unlucky and need new shafts and tube, The longer you leave it the worse its going to get! So you could save money regularly inspecting it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Andy

 

edit - must type quicker got beaten to it!

Edited February 26, 2007 by max0

[mikey_p 0]

Thanks a lot. That does help. Unfortunatly I won't be able to really inspect the beam until about June (although i'd like it fixed before the trip to Le Mans ) as i'm doing finals at uni so time is tight, and I will take a loooong time inspecting and reburbishing a beam as I'm pretty useless with mechanics.

 

I've heard you can inspect the beam and change bearings and seals with the beam on the car, have I got this right? and is there a guide for how to do this, as i've only skim read the guide on here, but it appears it's for removing the whole beam and reburbing it that way. I guess I would need to remove the whole thing if I needed new beam shafts and a new tube though, is that also correct?

 

Cheers for the help, I can imagine answering rear beam questions has become remarkably tedious.

[M@tt 77]

You could inpect the beam whilst it's on the car but tbh it's a pain in the ass. It's alot easier to have the beam off.

 

There is no guide as such for inspecting as really its the same as the main guide for dismantling the beam.

 

but if everything is fubar'd you'll need to remove the beam anyway.

 

If your not going to inspect it till June then your best bet is to start collecting parts now and spread the cost as you can pretty much guarantee it'll need those 2 new shafts and bearings at least. Bearings are in the region of £40 for the lot and you might get lucky trawling a scrappy pulling apart beams from lower models to find some decent shafts rather than new shafts @ £55 + vat each

[Phil 0]

If you have done it before, inspecting the beam is an absolute doddle. But you can guarantee some parts will need changing.

 

All you have do to is:

Jack up rear of car (or use a pit if you have one - much easier!)

Remove exhaust from middle section backwards

Unclip handbrake cables and pull them through the rear calipers towards the front of the car

Undo the brake lines where the rubber section routes over the beam tube

Undo the metal brace bar thing that goes around the big cross tube and forwards under the petrol tank

Let the jack back down

In the boot, undo the two 16mm (I think) nuts under the clear plastic plugs

Under the back seats undo the 4 16mm nuts

Jack the rear of the car up slowly (using a jack each side if possible) untilt he wheels JUST leave the floor

Under the back seats where you removed the 4 bolts, persuade the pins to drop through the floor pan (shake the axle from one of the wheels or use a hammer on the pins)

Once these have dropped down a bit (or out completely) jack the car up until the axle falls completely.

Undo the back wheels from the axle and drag the axle out the back of the car.

 

If nothing is seized this will take about 15-20 mins.

 

The bits most liekly to need replacing are the square rubber 'sandwich mounts' at the rear of the beam and the shafts/bearings etc (full rebuild)

Edited February 27, 2007 by Phil

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

You could inpect the beam whilst it's on the car but tbh it's a pain in the ass. It's alot easier to have the beam off.

 

There is no guide as such for inspecting as really its the same as the main guide for dismantling the beam.

 

but if everything is fubar'd you'll need to remove the beam anyway.

 

If your not going to inspect it till June then your best bet is to start collecting parts now and spread the cost as you can pretty much guarantee it'll need those 2 new shafts and bearings at least. Bearings are in the region of £40 for the lot and you might get lucky trawling a scrappy pulling apart beams from lower models to find some decent shafts rather than new shafts @ £55 + vat each

 

i think ab motorsport does the complete rebuild kit on abay for about 90 . then as matt says if you have serious camber then its fair to say that the two shafts will need replacing . i'de also invest in two new rear sandwich mounts as there's a fair chance they are falling appart and should be replaced anyway. if you're dropping the beam off the car remove all the brakes and leave them connected to the car , otherwise you'll be replacing brake pipe also.

[Phil 0]

i think ab motorsport does the complete rebuild kit on abay for about 90 . then as matt says if you have serious camber then its fair to say that the two shafts will need replacing . i'de also invest in two new rear sandwich mounts as there's a fair chance they are falling appart and should be replaced anyway. if you're dropping the beam off the car remove all the brakes and leave them connected to the car , otherwise you'll be replacing brake pipe also.

 

What AB Motorsport sells on ebay for £90 can be bought from your local Pug dealership for about £40 so be very weary of that. Good tip on removing the brakes from the beam instead of splitting the line. I probably should have done that but I needed to change the fluid anyway!

[chownr 0]

It does sound like your present beam is past its sell by date.

 

In my opinion (and its only my 2 pence worth) I would buy a refurbished beam (make sure you see receipts or know the integrity of the seller!! or keep an eye out for a reasonable 2nd hand beam and refurbish this in your own time. That way you are never up against a deadline of getting the car back on the road because the beam is off the car and out of action. (how many times have you heard people allow a day to do a full rebuild only to find that the torsion bars are seized or the tube is u/s or the shafts completely shot etc etc)

 

Once the beam has been refurbished you can refit in a matter of hours and save yourself a lot of stress and anxiety.

 

Hope this helps

 

Rich

[skeggyrik 3]

My beam wasn't showing any Classic signs of failure. Nothing visual, nothing audible and moved freely.

Come rebuild time, it came apart (eventually) and it wasn't pretty. Outer bearings had started to break up and the shafts were a mess. You never can tell until you get them apart but from what I've read and seen on here, any 205 that hasn't already had it done by now will need it doing unless you are very fortunate. If it's starting to show signs of failure it needs sorting ASAP before it grinds itself into an unsalvageable mess.

 

Mines going back on the car this weekend all freshly rebuilt and painted, if my new Group A mounts turn up in time.

It's taken much longer than expected, it is a DIYable job and its all simple to understand once you get going. I'm not saying it's easy to do but the theory of what you have to do is. I wont be doing another in a hurry. hopefully.

 

Rich

[mikey_p 0]

It does sound like your present beam is past its sell by date.

 

In my opinion (and its only my 2 pence worth) I would buy a refurbished beam (make sure you see receipts or know the integrity of the seller!! or keep an eye out for a reasonable 2nd hand beam and refurbish this in your own time. That way you are never up against a deadline of getting the car back on the road because the beam is off the car and out of action. (how many times have you heard people allow a day to do a full rebuild only to find that the torsion bars are seized or the tube is u/s or the shafts completely shot etc etc)

 

Once the beam has been refurbished you can refit in a matter of hours and save yourself a lot of stress and anxiety.

 

Hope this helps

 

Rich

 

 

I like the sound of this solution. I will take some time to check out the beam, but my assumption is that it is totally knackered and so I will need a replacement anyway (judging by my luck with cars).

 

If I inspect the beam, and it is knackered, can they be reassembled? or will everything just fall to peices when it is taken apart, and not go back together again. As I would like to inspect it, then put it back together again so the car won't be off the road for as long. Although i'm quite tempted to just buy a refurbed rear beam as I usually go along the lines of rather paying more and knowing it has been done properly. And i am not a fan of car mechanics (wrong car to buy really wasn't it )

[lagonda 41]

This job took me a month & a half to complete as I have limited spare time. If you're not particularly mechanically minded or only have basic tools, I'd give it a miss and buy one ready done.

The rear beam is a brilliant compact design, but it's let down by bearings that belong in a watch not a car: they're too vulnerable to water ingress once the seals start to fail. It's daft that they don't wear out as such, it's the water that starts rust which then cruds the bearings up.

I fitted grease nipples to mine, relatively straightforward to do. Then you can keep the beam regularly lubricated, as much to keep the seals moist as to oil/grease the bearings.

I'm still in two minds as to whether to use oil or grease. I was advised against using oil as it was too light, but would have thought a gear oil would be fine, better than grease as it would be more mobile. Any one else any thoughts on that?