Secrets Of Removing Gti Head? Help!

[silent_running 0]

Hope someone can help. We (me and 'Atari Boy' also on this forum) are in the middle of our first 205 head removal. So far we've roughly followed the Haynes and common sense, having removed the inlet manifold and fuel system, moved most of the plumbing and electrics out of the way, drained the oil and water, and after a hell of a struggle, removed the alternator, belt covers, cambelt and drivebelt.

 

Now we're stuck. There are two problems: first we can't see how you'd lock the crank in position while trying to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt; and secondly can't get the engine lifted high enough to be able to unbolt the o/s engine mount bracket from the head.

 

Haynes suggests jamming the flywheel ring gear, but I can't see how you could put anything in there e.g. a screwdriver that would not break or ping off when I'm on the other end with a long torque wrench on the pulley nut. What should we do to lock the crank properly?

 

We undid the o/s engine mount and dismantled the top part of the bracket part and have even managed to get the three bolts (two in the head, one in the block) loose and can wind them a fair way out. But the two bolts in the head will not come any further out of the engine mount bracket before fouling on the inner wing. Everytime we try to jack the engine further up, it lifts the whole front of the car up. Should we totally undo the bottom engine mount or the n/s one under the battery tray? Or is there something else really obvious that's not letting the engine rise any further without taking the car with it? If only we could jack it a couple more inches out of the engine bay our problems would be solved!

 

Cheers!

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

You need to undo the bottom engine mount and also undo the top mount just the single 16mm then jack the engine up on that side, this will allow access to the bolts on the side of the mount, iirc you only need to remove one or two cant remember which as the rest are bolted to the head its self so you can lift it off with the mount attached.

 

If you havent access to air tools or alike then you wil need to jam the flywheel in order to remove the bolt. Easiest to remove the flywheel cover, or get access to the timing slot on the top of the box and wedge a large bar in there.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Jam the flywheel with a screwdriver. It does work.

 

You don't need to remove the engine mount bolts fully, just un do them as far as you can. Once you have jacked the engine up as high as possible you should find that the rear most bolt just clears a lip in the inner wing and you can get a few more mm out of it. But like I said, you don;t need to actually remove them. Once you've wound them out as far as you can they should have come out of the head an the rest of the bolt is just sitting in the mount.

 

Take it careful with the headbolts. I used a lot of Plus Gas on mine and soaked them over a few days to make sure I didn;t snap a bolt, but I'm just over cautious!

Edited February 11, 2007 by GLPoomobile

[silent_running 0]

Thanks for the answers so far!

 

OK so it looks like we shouldn't worry too much about jamming the flywheel. We've got the bottom cover off on the edge of the bellhousing, but maybe I'll have a look up top and see if we can jam it there as well. Would just sticking it in 5th gear work?

 

As far as the lifting of the engine goes, have we made a mistake in jacking under the sump (protected by a lump of wood)? It's basically lifting the whole engine straight up rather than just the o/s end. Perhaps we should choose a different spot to jack it, closer to the bit we want to lift? But apart from that it's basically down to loosening off both the other mounts? We were wary of totally undoing both in case it just falls out of the engine bay.

 

Re: the bottom mount that links to the bulkhead - when loosening this, are we talking about the bolt that goes through the donut rubber, or the vertical bolt that secures the bulkhead end? It seems like more movement at that end would let the mount pivot up and down, whereas just loosening the horizontal bolt through the rubber makes pretty much no difference to being able to lift the engine at all?

 

Last bonus question! In the end we got fed up messing about with the cambelt and the crank pulley which wouldn't loosen so we just cut the cambelt off. We've got a new one anyway. Obviously now the crank won't be timed to the cam. Are there any really obvious mistakes to avoid now? The only thing I can think of is to leave the crank pulley well alone until the head's right off. But when we go to put the whole lot back together, will we be able to get the belt to the right place by putting the timing dowels in? Is it no more complicated than that?

 

Cheers

[Ahl 4]

No, sticking it in 5th gear won't work. Jam it with something.

 

Remove the nut from the drivers side engine mount, the one on the wing you can see easily.

Remove the horizontal bolt from the lower engine mount rubber!

Jack the engine up under that side.

 

Yes, you can just line up the dowels again, and timing marks on the pulleys/belt if it has them.

[jeremy 68]

Was your engine locked in the timed position using the locating holes in both the cam sprocket, and the crankshaft pully before you cut the timing belt? I really hope so as unless you want to make up liner clamps to ensure the pistons are in the correct position before putting the head back on.

 

My edit: sorry just re-read your last reply, what ever you do take note of the location of the camshaft sprocket so that when you put the head back on you will have a rough idea what position the valves should be in, otherwise you could end up with a valve protruding from the head and hitting a piston.

 

Yes you do need to disconect the lower engine mount, and yes you can jack the engine up underneath the sump, as long as you use a block of wood between the jack and sump.

 

Also where in suffolk are you?

Edited February 11, 2007 by jeremy

[silent_running 0]

Was your engine locked in the timed position using the locating holes in both the cam sprocket, and the crankshaft pully before you cut the timing belt? I really hope so as unless you want to make up liner clamps to ensure the pistons are in the correct position before putting the head back on.

 

My edit: sorry just re-read your last reply, what ever you do take note of the location of the camshaft sprocket so that when you put the head back on you will have a rough idea what position the valves should be in, otherwise you could end up with a valve protruding from the head and hitting a piston.

 

Yes you do need to disconect the lower engine mount, and yes you can jack the engine up underneath the sump, as long as you use a block of wood between the jack and sump.

 

Also where in suffolk are you?

 

Great stuff so far from all of you, many thanks.

 

I'm near Beccles, but the 205 is near Saffron Walden. The reason why we cut the cambelt is because when we went to get the crank pulley bolt off, it all felt fine like it was about to crack, then instead of the bolt head coming loose , the whole pulley suddenly gave and spun. From the looks of it, it jumped only a tooth or two on the cambelt, leaving the cam pulley locked through the dowel hole, but the crank 'dowel' (a drill bit!) had popped out and the hole had moved round from 12 o clock to about 10 o clock IIRC. Oops. Decided then that if it hadn't damaged anything already, trying to mess about with the crank pulley any more would more than likely cause a valve/piston hit somewhere if the crank spun again. Hence the easiest solution was to cut the belt and not touch the crank pulley again until the head was off, hoping that we'd be able to relocate it with the dowel when we reassembled. Does this all sound right?

Edited February 11, 2007 by silent_running

[V8Pete 0]

If you havent access to air tools or alike then you wil need to jam the flywheel in order to remove the bolt.

Out of curiosity, howcome you don't need to lock it if you use air tools? I don't disagree with you, but it's just something I've been wanting to know for ages.

[Alastairh 47]

Air tools work on impact, so i suppose thats how it does it.

I've used my electric impact gun before, and works just like james says

 

Alastair

[Guest BrainFluid]

I'm near Beccles.

 

Are you indeed So is yours the red, black or the white gti Ive seen about town?

 

 

EDIT:

but the crank 'dowel' (a drill bit!) had popped out and the hole had moved round from 12 o clock to about 10 o clock IIRC. Oops. Decided then that if it hadn't damaged anything already, trying to mess about with the crank pulley any more would more than likely cause a valve/piston hit somewhere if the crank spun again. Hence the easiest solution was to cut the belt and not touch the crank pulley again until the head was off,

 

You should have put the dowel back in. Its highly unlikely that you will damage the valves cranking the engine carefully by hand.

Edited February 11, 2007 by BrainFluid

[silent_running 0]

Are you indeed So is yours the red, black or the white gti Ive seen about town?

EDIT:

 

You should have put the dowel back in. Its highly unlikely that you will damage the valves cranking the engine carefully by hand.

 

LOL none of the above - if you've seen me around it's in a black WRX wagon. The 205 is Atari Boy's little project, although once it's back on the road it might well live up this way for a while.

 

When the dowel popped out, I couldn't get the pulley to turn back again so I left it. I think the plastic shield bit behind the pulley had got all broken up and jammed it. WHat a pain in the arse it was to get all those shields off.

[lagonda 41]

Locking the crank by using a large screwdriver between the flywheel teeth works fine, but ideally you need someone forcing the screwdriver in place whilst the other undoes the pulley bolt.

An alternative would be to remove the sump & wedge a suitably sized chunk of wood between one of the crank throws & the inner block face.

On reassembly ensure all pistons are about halfway down the bores, that way you've got plenty of room to manoeuvre doing your camshaft timing without risking pistons being too close to the head. However you set the camshaft, at least one valve will be well open, so if you do find firm resistance whilst setting, turn the crank back, not the camshaft.

[silent_running 0]

Locking the crank by using a large screwdriver between the flywheel teeth works fine, but ideally you need someone forcing the screwdriver in place whilst the other undoes the pulley bolt.

An alternative would be to remove the sump & wedge a suitably sized chunk of wood between one of the crank throws & the inner block face.

On reassembly ensure all pistons are about halfway down the bores, that way you've got plenty of room to manoeuvre doing your camshaft timing without risking pistons being too close to the head. However you set the camshaft, at least one valve will be well open, so if you do find firm resistance whilst setting, turn the crank back, not the camshaft.

 

Good thinking. We've already drained the oil and are replacing the sump gasket anyway, so this might be a good time to have the whole sump off. I think the Haynes said the crank pulley should be done up to 100-odd NM of torque but I'm sure whoever did it last time put way more on that that. I honestly think if we stick a screwdriver in the flywheel ring gear whatever torque I can put on the pulley bolt is gonna just snap the tip of the screwdriver straight off, assuming we can hold it in place. The crank throw/block of wood idea sounds good. Cheers!

[Sy_ 0]

Well done with your methodical perseverence! When you take the head bolts out don't forget which one has a washer under it's head, if you forget to refit this you may crack the block tightening it all up.

 

And don't shear off the central rocker cover bolt doing it up or oil will run out, down the exhaust and burst into flames when you start the engine.

 

A couple of theads that may help:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=19246&hl=]

http://www.pughosting.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=31676