Symptoms Of A Gone Head Gasket?

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

Im not sure about this..

What are the symptoms of a blown head gasket?

Cheers, Anton

[Baz 421]

Oil mixing with water, excessive use of water, leakages of oil and water, excessive white smoke (steam) coming from the exhaust...

 

One or a combo of all of the above!!

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

BUGGER!

At least I know what the trouble is however. I just topped up the coolant, gave it a rev and lots of white smoke came out from the rear. That combined with the odour of fuel vapours from the filler/expansion tank...

 

I took an engine apart once when I was thirteen, and I may have to consult the haynes joke book to remember what to do. I believe I'll need new head bolts along with the gasket, -is there anything else which is considered good form to replace?

Edited February 1, 2007 by Anton green

[zeolite 0]

The oil and water!

 

Seriously though if you don't plan to change the liner seals (rubber o'rings that sit between the liners and block which prevent the water getting into the oil) and you are sure that the problem IS the headgasket rather than the liner seals then be very carefully when pulling the head off not to disturb the liners. If you do it is a sump off and liners out job.

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

nightmare.

 

I'll have to look in the haynes book before bed now!

Edited February 2, 2007 by Anton green

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Here's my 2pence worth, from one quarter novice to a semi novice:

 

1) Follow the Haynes book - 'tis not perfect but does talk thru this procedure quite well. Read it thru first coz it will mention any additional tools like 'pins' that are required to lock any cranks/cams in a certain position.

 

2) Plan a weekend to be safe

 

3) Go to a motor factors with a list, which should really include:

 

------ A set of head bolts (maybe £12)

------ A head gasket (£7-15)

------ A new thermostat & associated gasket(s) £3

------ A pack of Scotchbrite pads (green stuff) to scrub the faces such as head/block & manifold faces (£1)

------ Inlet & exhaust manifold gaskets (some Vaseline for refitting the inlet gasket good too) (£15-20)

------ Consider new inlet & exhaust manifold bolts too (£3-6)

------ The exhaust down pipe to manifold sealers (usually a wire mesh ring & a pair of bolts (£2-4)

------ 2litres of antifreeze (£3)

------ 6litres of (correct) oil (£15)

------ Cam/Rocker cover gasket (£2-4)

------ Cam belt (unless you know yours is recent) (£10-12)

------ Fan belt (as above) (£3)

 

This (as THEY say) is not an exhaustive list but from memory I feel it's pretty comprehensive. Many of the above items will be contained in a 'head gasket kit', and might offer you both a saving and an easy way to get most of what's required.

 

You will of course need the relevant tools (might need torx bit for head, mine's a T55) and a torque wrench. It's time consuming looking up each torque setting but it's strangely satisfying knowing you've done it all up right.

 

4) Safely drain the oil & coolant and continue methodically as per the Haynes joke book

 

5) When it's time to lift off the head, you'll have noticed when you read the Haynes manual about the liners Zeolite mentioned. Be careful as he says!!!!!

 

I just wish you luck. I'm just going outside to refit my inlet system, plumb it all in, fit the new cam belt & tension it, top up system juices, fit the battery and pray it starts. It will, as will yours I'm positive.

 

Rich

Edited February 2, 2007 by DrSarty

[pug309twin40s 1]

change the cambelt tensioner and the water pump while the cly head is of if they havent been changed recently.

 

 

 

AS long as you dont turn the crank while the cyl head is of or hit the liners with a hammer they will be fine, after 10+years they will be stuck firm in position and usually take a fair bit to move them.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

If you buy an headgasket kit you get the valve seals too.

The kit will be about the same price as buying all the gaskets you need for just changing the headgasket.

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

The headgasket kit sounds appealing then. THANKS ALL. One last question (hopefully), should I go for Peugeot original equiptment gaskets/equiptment, or has everyone got their act in gear with regard to gaskets etc?

[jeremy 68]

Hope this helps too.

 

Do use the Haynes method, it is actually very good.

 

Undo the exhaust manifold to head nuts, instead of trying to undo the two manifold to the exhaust downpie, as although this means undoing more nuts in my experience this is easier.

 

If fitting a new cambelt (£9 from eurocarparts) the engine rotates in a clockwise direction as viewed from the offside, so make sure to put it on the right way round with the arrows facing downwards at the front of the engine.

 

You will most likely only be able to source the head to thermostat housing gasket from Peugeot.

 

You do not have to buy new head bolts if they are still within the specified tollerence, this is up to you. However the most important thing is when doing them up in sequence is to only tighten up by a 100 degrees before moving onto the next, as if you do the first one by the full 300 degrees straight away there is a very high chance it will shear believe me I know from experience!

 

In my experience unless the rocker cover gasket is brittle or already leaking I have never replaced this.

 

I have nver used vaseline to help seal the inlet manifold gaskets, and never had a problem.

 

You will most likely need a puller to remove the lower pully to put on the new cambelt, as the lip on these are very easy to chip if using a screwdriver/crobar to prise it off.

 

With the fan belt use you disgression, it is very easy to replace at a later date.

 

I doubt the liners will move once the head is removed, but just make sure you do not turn the crank.

 

I would personally count on the fact that your head will need welding and a skim, so allow £40 for this by an engineer, and also the time it will take them.

 

Do label everything it will save you loads of worry and time. On the pipes and wires I use masking tape and write on it wih a biro to label them, and place all nuts bolts etc in bank bags with labels too. To keep them all safe and in one place I use the passengers footwell.

 

Also see my post under Daxed Cambelt failure.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

All good advice here. Print it out and use it.

 

The general rule of thumb is whilst you're doing this major op, to replace the associated components such as the water pump as these are generally pretty cheap.

 

You have to ask yourself, whilst it's off the road for this, do I really want to take it off again because I saved £2.50 by not replacing a - simple during this task - gasket. Head bolts likewise - it's less than £20 normally; I would. What if your gasket goes again because you resused your old head bolts? Personally it's just not a risk I'd be prepared to take; but that's up to you.

 

The Vaseline suggestion was from Jim21070 (?) on this forum, and I get the impression he is well experienced, dare I say veteran of automotive mechanics. Can't do any harm can it?

 

Good luck dude and let us know how the whole thing goes.

 

DrS

[jeremy 68]

DrSarty I think the main reason for using new headbolts is to help prevent them shearing when you tighten them up, as personally I doubt re-using them would lead to premature failure of the new gasket.

 

I do agree that sometimes it is worth replacing certain items as they are fairly cheap and easy to do once you have it all apart anyway, however I must just have been very lucky as I have never replaced either the water pump or tensioner.

[Faz85 0]

I agree its definetely worth doing as much as you can with as little labour as possible, which is why i would at least change the cam belt, tensioner and water pump.

 

As for head bolts, I would certainly change them too, since they are designed to stretch quite a bit when you torque them up, and if you re-use them they are more likely to yield and hence wont seal the head properly or may shear. Its an unlikely event, but best to be on the safe side IMO.

 

Faz

[Alastairh 47]

But before you do all that, buy a compression tester (£15) to make sure its actually gone!

 

Alastair

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Re the head bolts (again):

 

As has been mentioned they stretch. It is my understanding that the originals can be used, but they need to be 'trimmed' down a bit. If you don't they prematurely tighten, which is also a very good reason when cleaning off the block, to also clear out the head bolt block cavities too, as old gasket and other cr8p can accumulate down there to once again give the impression they're pinched properly when they're not.

 

That is a very long-winded way of saying, "buy & use new head bolts". It's safer.

 

Rich

[Faz85 0]

That is a very long-winded way of saying, "buy & use new head bolts". It's safer.

 

Rich

 

 

Perhaps also a very polite way of saying "you'd be feckin stupid not too" eh Rich

 

Faz

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Perhaps also a very polite way of saying "you'd be feckin stupid not too" eh Rich

Faz

 

Yep

[GLPoomobile 958]

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, so i'll just point out thata typical 'headset' from somewhere like GSF will have evrything you need plus some extra bits...everything, that is, except for the headgasket (weird? yes!) and the head bolts.

 

use the method described on Puma Racing's website for tightening the bolts as it's more forgiving. I think he says you can then re-use the bolts as they won't have stretched, but I think for the sake of a few quid I'd rather just buy new bolts anyway, since I'm a bit paranoid like that!

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

No point in hanging about- summers coming! Im going to bug a friend of mine tomorrow who runs a Sierra cossy rally car to compression test my pug in the afternoon-not seen the guy in a while. Silicon hoses should be on their way by then too, with a touch of fortune my 205 should be bulletproof in about 4 weeks time.

 

Unless I end up having to buy the drinks tomorrow night at the pub in which case it may take a while longer!

[Baz 421]

But before you do all that, buy a compression tester (£15) to make sure its actually gone!

 

Alastair

 

The headgasket can fail without losing compression though, ie. if it doesn't fail between the cylinders, but an oil/waterway.

[Anton green 12 1 Cars]

LOL. There's no way of knowing for sure then!

[zeolite 0]

If you are losing coolant and there is water in your oil you can be sure that either the HG or the liner seals are letting water into the oil. Either way the head has to come off.

White smoke out of the exhaust and mayo in the breathers and sump are clinchers.