Bike Tb Suitability , Set Of R6 Ones Available

[Rippthrough 98]

The ones at the start of the thread are definatly bodies - they have a TPS and a MAP sensor built in.

 

They also have the idle air control there - the carbs are cable operated.

Edited December 30, 2006 by Rippthrough

[bales 1]

Not disagreeing with you but just out of interest where is the MAP sensor on the ones in the picture.

 

Mine have a TPS too as they operate on an ignition only engine management on the bike.

 

Its just that I have a set on my lap here and I am stuggling to see the differences

[Rippthrough 98]

Left of off centre, small reference ipe hat also runs to fpr, is going into the map sensor.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

 

I dont see how you can see that they have injectors on since we can only see one side of them, the only difference to mine is that they appear to have some more plumbing on with a pressure regulator.

 

 

Alex

 

sorry i meant the ones i have seen on ebay appear to have injectors not yours .

 

yours looks different to the ones on there.

 

and yes i am going to get the gsxr ones as you said people are having alot of success with them.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

Just a point to note, RF600 uses the same setup as a gsxr and parts are often cheaper due to lower demand

[Dream Weaver 2]

The ones at the start of the thread are definatly bodies - they have a TPS and a MAP sensor built in.

 

They also have the idle air control there - the carbs are cable operated.

 

I may be wrong, but if they are throttle bodies, why do they have float chambers on top, and where are the injectors and fuel rail?

 

Carbs use a TPS and MAP if required as well as bodies???

[Rippthrough 98]

I may be wrong, but if they are throttle bodies, why do they have float chambers on top, and where are the injectors and fuel rail?

 

Carbs use a TPS and MAP if required as well as bodies???

 

 

They aren't float chambers, they're the vacuum supply for the CV sliders, the injectors are on the other side and so is the rail.

 

See:

[Dream Weaver 2]

Interesting, I said I may be wrong

 

So how do the CV sliders work?

[Rippthrough 98]

Interesting, I said I may be wrong

 

So how do the CV sliders work?

 

 

Similar to in a CV carb (not quite the same, they have a reference to the engine vaccum so they never restrict airflow like CV carbs can sometimes)

 

They are fully extended in that picture - at high vacuum (i.e cruising along or low throttle openings) they keep the air choked off and the accerlerate the airspeed past the injectors - gives better fuel mixing, as the throttle opens and the vacuum falls they side down until they are fully open when the engine is pulling so much air the fuel homogenises well anyway.

 

Gets a bit better economy/torque (and emissions) low down and also gets rid of that annoying jump/stutter you can sometimes get when opening the throttles right up from low rpm from too, obviously a bike is more sensitive to that as the front gets launched into the air instead of the bike getting punched forwards, which is why they use 'em.

[sutol 0]

Just checked mine with a vernier and they are 37.3mm at the at the butterfly.

 

So say 37mm.

 

According to my 4 stroke performance tuning book 36mm is adequate for a semi-race engine with 500cc per cylinder

 

(I have never used them so I am not saying this from experience, I agree a lot of people tend to go for the R1's due to the larger choke size's, however how much of this is to do with the big is good so bigger must be better philosophy i don't know. Theoretically they should be fine, but that is often not so practical in real life)

 

Wouldn't I be right in saying that as a bike engine revs a lot higher (say 50%) than a car engine and shifts a lot more air per minute throught the carbs then the car engine would produce good power using the same carbs at lower revs. If you see what I mean

[bales 1]

It doesn't necessarily shift anymore air per minute, if a bike engine is spinning at 12000rpm and making 150bhp and a car engine is spinning at 6000rpm and making 150bhp they must be processing the same amount of air.

 

A bike just has to rely on its rate of work to achieve the same amount of air pumped through it, theyre just air pumps really.

[sutol 0]

It doesn't necessarily shift anymore air per minute, if a bike engine is spinning at 12000rpm and making 150bhp and a car engine is spinning at 6000rpm and making 150bhp they must be processing the same amount of air.

 

A bike just has to rely on its rate of work to achieve the same amount of air pumped through it, theyre just air pumps really.

 

I don't agree

[welshpug 1,622]

neither do I!!

[Rippthrough 98]

neither do I!!

 

[sutol 0]

 

It would be interesting to measure the flow rate of one choke of a Weber 40 against the better flowing , butterflyless, bike carb.

My guess is that the bike carb would win hands down

Anyway, if the Weber better then the bikers would be snapping them up and when did you last see a bike with twin Webers on it ?

[bales 1]

neither do I!!

 

Whys that?

[Dream Weaver 2]

It would be interesting to measure the flow rate of one choke of a Weber 40 against the better flowing , butterflyless, bike carb.

My guess is that the bike carb would win hands down

Anyway, if the Weber better then the bikers would be snapping them up and when did you last see a bike with twin Webers on it ?

 

AFAIK, bike carbs do have butterflys

[bales 1]

I'd be interested to see how a butterflyless throttle would work on a SI engine

[Rippthrough 98]

I'd be interested to see how a butterflyless throttle would work on a SI engine

 

 

Talk to caterham, although I don't think that's what you meant

[bales 1]

I bloody knew someone would mention roller barrel throttles!

 

I should have said "throttleless"

[Rippthrough 98]

I bloody knew someone would mention roller barrel throttles!

 

I should have said "throttleless"

 

 

Gotcha!

[sutol 0]

Whys that?

 

I seem to remember that some bike carbs have slides instead of butterflies which when wide open leave an unobstructed choke.

Anyway, I can't understand why an engine with one choke per cylinder would require a choke size any larger than the area of the valve opening/openings less the area of restriction provided by the valve guides.

Seems such a waste

Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree as usual

 

Perhaps I should of looked at the pictures first ...But some bike carbs do have throttle slides that lift out of the way much like an S.U. without the needle..

Edited January 9, 2007 by sutol

[Rippthrough 98]

I seem to remember that some bike carbs have slides instead of butterflies which when wide open leave an unobstructed choke.

Anyway, I can't understand why an engine with one choke per cylinder would require a choke size any larger than the area of the valve opening/openings less the area of restriction provided by the valve guides.

Seems such a waste

Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree as usual

 

 

To give smoother acceleration of the airflow.

[sutol 0]

To give smoother acceleration of the airflow.

 

I don't understand

[bales 1]

To the above question

 

Similar to in a CV carb (not quite the same, they have a reference to the engine vaccum so they never restrict airflow like CV carbs can sometimes)

 

They are fully extended in that picture - at high vacuum (i.e cruising along or low throttle openings) they keep the air choked off and the accerlerate the airspeed past the injectors - gives better fuel mixing, as the throttle opens and the vacuum falls they side down until they are fully open when the engine is pulling so much air the fuel homogenises well anyway.

 

Gets a bit better economy/torque (and emissions) low down and also gets rid of that annoying jump/stutter you can sometimes get when opening the throttles right up from low rpm from too, obviously a bike is more sensitive to that as the front gets launched into the air instead of the bike getting punched forwards, which is why they use 'em.