What Engine/gearbox Combo To Go For?

[fulani 4]

Right. I have a standard 1988 1.9 with a BE1 gearbox. It's done 162,000 miles, and only making 101bhp now. The clutch is far too heavy (missus can't even press it!), and I hate having to be at 4k rpm on the motorway.

I've been looking at the various engine conversions/replacement around, and I still don't know which one is for me.

 

Requirements:

 

Engine:

Over 150 bhp, but with decent torque as well.

Something that won't detonate on trackdays.

...but can handle long motorway journeys as well.

Fuel Injected for winter morning starts.

 

Gearbox:

Shortish 1st, 2nd and 3rd for track and B roads.

Long top for motorway travelling.

Light clutch action.

Quickshift linkages.

 

 

My current trains of thought are twofold:

 

1. Rebuild 8v XU, supercharge with Mini Cooper S 'charger. Not sure about 'box.

 

2. GTI-6 engine and 'box. Get a low miler so no rebuild needed, but expensive to buy a whole car just to nick the engine. Although it would mean I could nick the interior as well.

 

So basically, it needs to be an everyday driving, motorway munching, rip snorting trackday beast. Is that too much to ask?

 

Can anyone else think of a decent engine/gearbox combo that would suit?

[welshpug 1,627]

4k rpm? slow down buddy!!!

 

heavy clutch? new cable and grease the clutch release arm pivots/replace the bushes.

 

first port of call would be to find out why its only pushing 101bhp.

 

second would be to do this car up and sell it as an original example and buy one of the already converted cars.

 

as for the second to last question, a 306 gti6 is the only car that could fulfill all criteria if you want a pug, if you dont mind anything non pug i'd say

E30 325iS

[fulani 4]

It hits around 3800 rpm in 5th at 80mph. I don't think 80mph is unreasonable on today's motorways, and of course on runs down to the 'ring it gets a little higher than that.

 

Is there like, an overdrive option for a Be3 box at all? That might do.

 

 

I would imagine the engine is only pushing 101bhp because it's 18 years old and has 162,000 miles on the clock.

 

Oh, and I want to keep this car. Put too much time and effort into it to sell. Would never recoup half of what I've spent. Plus I have to have a 205. If I was looking to sell I'd be getting something outrageous, like a Skyline or a Supra or something.

[Sandy 189]

The GTi6 1st and 2nd aren't particularly short, bit it's a good "whole" solution with the GTi6 engine. Otherwise the Mi16 or S16 boxes are the best compromise IMO, nicely spaced 1st/2nd/3rd and decent 4th/5th for faster driving and cruising.

[fulani 4]

Would an S16 box fit on an XU? I assume it's a 5 speed?

[welshpug 1,627]

S16 is an XU....

 

yes its 5 speed, the only factory 6 speed manual till very recently was the GTi6 (407's use 6 speed boxes)

[fulani 4]

Ah, good. I'm learning already. So what is an S16? 16v XU? 2.0 or 1.9?

 

Seen them much cheaper than GTI-6s. Might be an idea.

[welshpug 1,627]

S16 is a model name of the 306, uses the later version of the 2.0 iron block 155bhp engine as the 405 Mi16.

 

GTi6 is related but a later design with not that much interchangeable, though it is very close to the later 16v 306 XSi engines (still 2.0 XU's)

 

 

gti6 doesnt suffer from the oil starvation issues though, and is a more modern unit, and are getting cheaper.

 

looking at your options I'd go for a gti6 engine and gearbox with 309 lower arms (to gain width and some lock back) and use the gti6 management.

 

or go for a mildly tuned 2.0 8v turbo with a hybrid gearbox, they are much lower revving engines so need slightly taller boxes than Std.

[James_m 0]

But the Mi16/S16 boxes are also quite short geared in 5th, 4k at 80 sounds familiar for an S16. Really you will need some kind of hybrid box with a diesel 5th.

The Gti-6 isnt that high geared in 6th either iirc. Its 6 gears pushed into the space of the usual 5 if that makes sense, rather than 5 an a overdrive. 6th its barely any taller than the 1.9 5th.

[fulani 4]

But the Mi16/S16 boxes are also quite short geared in 5th, 4k at 80 sounds familiar for an S16. Really you will need some kind of hybrid box with a diesel 5th.

The Gti-6 isnt that high geared in 6th either iirc. Its 6 gears pushed into the space of the usual 5 if that makes sense, rather than 5 an a overdrive. 6th its barely any taller than the 1.9 5th.

 

Yeah, just had a PM from Miles saying that choosing a GTI-6 box would mean instant death. I didn't understand it exactly, but apparently you can't turn right.

 

Perhaps a diesel 5th would make sense.

[jonnie205 1]

Just go for a gti6 engine from wrecked 306 or xsara for £500 and use the mi16 box for best performance. Whack on a diesel 5th if you do a lot of motorway miles.

[gti_al 1]

I would be careful building a box with a huge gap between 4th and 5th. I recently drove a 205 like that, and it was very unpleasant at times. To get up hills at 90 - 100kph it needed to be dropped back into 4th, and it just felt all wrong.

 

I think that car is a bit odd though - somehow 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th were really short, then 5th was stupidly long... Casnell? How did you do it again? It is perfect for rallying (its intended use) but very odd on the road.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

or go for a mildly tuned 2.0 8v turbo with a hybrid gearbox, they are much lower revving engines so need slightly taller boxes than Std.

Almost exactly what I have , though mine is a standard 1.9 low comp 205 CTI engine. No air flow meter so nice idling, hauls well in 1,2,3 but with a longer 4th and 5th for motorway. 70mph = 3k rpm in 5th. It works well on a track and has the Mi drivers telling me to slow down on a run as it cruises easily at 90mph without revving its knackers off. Again, probably lowish bhp (160bhp?) but it is the torque that pulls you along

 

Oh and stupidly economical too and on classic fully comp insurance with trackday cover and breakdown for £250 !!

[sonofsam 5]

2.0L 8v turbo = 20mpg

Cant wait to get my TD final drive in, felt like I needed a sixth gear on the motorway

Torque is damn good mind

[Alastairh 47]

Just go for a gti6 engine from wrecked 306 or xsara for £500 and use the mi16 box for best performance. Whack on a diesel 5th if you do a lot of motorway miles.

 

Just what i was gonna say.

 

Cheaper better engine than a mi, no rebuilds yet, better manners (no wank afms). Decent 5 speed mi box should see you happy.

 

Im going this route in the next few months with a few tweeks

[fulani 4]

Has anyone done a supercharged 8v yet?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

There have been a few over the years, I went out in one back in 88 and that was just mental back then, But supercharger's require allot more work to fit over a turbo

[Super Josh 4]

Oh and stupidly economical too and on classic fully comp insurance with trackday cover and breakdown for £250 !!

 

 

How do you manage that then Henry? Do you only cover very low mileage?

 

 

 

 

 

Josh

[fulani 4]

Right, so I'm looking for an S16 or GTI-6 engine, and an Mi16 gearbox.

 

How much would I be looking at to buy that, and have it fitted? I can do a lot of stuff myself these days, but I think engine conversions are a little beyond me!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

S16/405 engine's are cheap as chips at the moment, Use that and a 1.9 Mi16 Loom and ECU and you;ve got a fairly quick and easy install using the same exhaust manifold mating to your downpipe, GTi6 engine's vary allot upto £800.00 ish before replacing the Cambelt etc

[fulani 4]

405 engines? Is there a 405 that had the same engine as the S16 then?

 

...and where can I find these cheap engines? Only stuff on ebay is shagged old 306s with broken cambelts.

[fulani 4]

Still can't find anything.

 

Thinking about possibly just rebuilding the 8v lump now. Maybe with carbs?

[welshpug 1,627]

405 engines? Is there a 405 that had the same engine as the S16 then?

 

...and where can I find these cheap engines? Only stuff on ebay is shagged old 306s with broken cambelts.

 

 

nearly bought that as it was less than 5 miles away. but got a ZX with the same engine for £250 8 miles away and I'm not breaking it!