Cold Start - Car Wont Run (isnt Sad/water Sensor Problems)

[Guest srack]

the car is an 205gti 1900 1992.

has a bx gti 1900 engine, i've replaced the engine 2 months ago.

since - car wont run on first/2nd/3rd or even 4th time! on cold start.

here its aint so cold, approx 20c at the morning. but still, when i try to start, 5 first secends the car wont start at all, after those 5 sec, the car will open, goes to 400-500rpm for less than a sec, then goes back off.

same goes for the 3-5 times that you try after that.

only after few times, the car will run, and you can hear that it aint sounding well (only until i press the gas, than it goes back again to A+ idle).

what can be the problems?

replaced SAD 3 times, and twice the water temp sensor (behind the distributor, has a green colour on the top. 1 wire connected.

 

what else can it be? the AFM seems to be working fine.

forgive my english if i mistake sometimes, im not localy. (europe)

cheers.

[Grim.Badger 15]

What rpm does the car idle at when warm?

20c is considered a warm/hot day here

[Guest srack]

car's idle rpm is around 900-950. when its worm.

the problem is only when i dont start it for the night.

yea, 20c here is freezing , we are used to that.

40c usualy over the year, under the shadow.

but even then, when the temp is 30c outside, the cold start is bad!

[Powers 13]

Does it ever misfire when warm and normal driving?

If it does then change electrical components like spark plugs etc.

 

If it doesnt then its not electrical problem.

 

It could be that your headgasket is failing and over time its letting oil or water into the combustion chamber which sits ontop of the piston.

Best way to check is leave the car for a couple of days, then remove the spark plugs, check if they are wet or damp, also push a bit of cloth through the hole till it hits the top of the piston and also check this for oil or water.

[Guest srack]

no misfire at all. (have got the engine for a month orso)

also, after fixing all the cracked oil hoses, there's no oil loosing, white smoke, or anything like it, if the headgasket is failing, i should get some white smoke, no?

i'll do your test with removing the sparks, anyhow, coil is new, sparks are new, i've never tried to save on that car. all is a top A class parts.

afm also was replaced when fitting the engine, due to old one started to wobbly around.

thanks.

[Grim.Badger 15]

I'd adjust the warm idle to 1500rpm as they can be a bit ropey below this. I think this is a bit of a bodge, but it works on mine

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

It is normal for them to run a bit rough for 10-15 seconds on first start, although I don't know why. Of three cars I run one needs throttle to make it run at all when first started and the others run distinctly lumpy for 10-15 seconds. Feel like they are running on about 2.5 cylinders!

 

If it needs a touch of throttle for a few seconds on first starting then I'd say it is nothing particularly out of the ordinary.

 

Rob

 

P.S. I've got cleaned injectors, tried different SADs, AFMs, new ECU sensors, adjusted igintion timing, idle mixture, cleaned AFMs, cleaned TBs, breather pipes, etc and still no solution. Good luck!

[futura 3]

Hi there, realised I sold you a master cylinder through ebay

 

Is the ignition timing correct? If out it could cause a difficult start though it would probably not run too smoothly afterwards.

 

Could be leaking injectors, it took me years to work that out on my car as they were leaking very slowly and when I took the injectors rail out and left it still under fuel pressure for an hour over buckets they wouldn't leak enough for me to notice!

[Guest srack]

Is the ignition timing correct? If out it could cause a difficult start though it would probably not run too smoothly afterwards.

 

Could be leaking injectors, it took me years to work that out on my car as they were leaking very slowly and when I took the injectors rail out and left it still under fuel pressure for an hour over buckets they wouldn't leak enough for me to notice!

 

car works fine after start, do you think that leaking injectors can cause it ?

the problem isnt on the first 10-15 sec after the car is running. the problem is - that the car needs 10-15 sec to start at all!, before that, it just doesnt start.

after it starts, takes 2-3sec of pressing gas for her to work smoothly. weird. doesnt feel like 1 cyl is dead.

will do compression test soon, and will check what "power" told me to do with the plugs. will give the car approx 4 days for relaxation, and will try it again.

will reinform you the results soon.

thanks.

[t16ryan 1]

Have you done a compression check ?

[futura 3]

Yes I think your problems could be leaking injectors. When you have left the car for a few hoursm petrol will have leaked in the cylinders and it will stop the sparkplugs from doing their job.

 

When you are cranking the engine for 10-15s cylinders dry out a bit and then engine starts. Once it has started it runs roughly for another few seconds until the wet petrol completely dries out and then it finally runs fine - exactly the symptoms I had.

 

I have a set of four injectors if you would like to test, though postage costs are high and it would probably be cheaper for you to find a good set locally.

Edited November 18, 2006 by futura

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Theory is sound but 2 of my cars have recently re-furbed injectors and still run rough initially. Been on the forum a while and not come across a good answer to this yet!

[hafslund 0]

and twice the water temp sensor (behind the distributor, has a green colour on the top. 1 wire connected.

 

This temp. sensor has nothing with how the engine runs but is mearly for the guage.

 

The ECU temp sensor sits underneath the distributor on top of the SAD. It has a Blue 2 pin bosch conector...try switching this...

[futura 3]

Theory is sound but 2 of my cars have recently re-furbed injectors and still run rough initially. Been on the forum a while and not come across a good answer to this yet!

Yours are just bewitched

Mine starts much better though I have noticed that it will take 2s to start if I keep the ignition turned until it fires up, but if I crank it for half a second and it will start as I release the key or as the starter motor stops getting current.

So it seems to me that fuel doesn't instantaneously come out the injectors, expect if when I release the ignition key.

I remember Rob said somewhere that a small amount of fuel comes out the injectors when the ignition is released, but what could explain a lack of fuel when the engine is turning over?

[Guest srack]

updates:! (your help is still needed)

i've replaced the sad sensor again. with a sensor from my other car. 100% working. still nothing happend.

yesterday i took the injectors out, and inserted a 205gti 1900 1989 injectors, black, 0280150734. 200cc.

still. car drives well when hot. but doesnt start on cold. again, thats not 2 sec until it start.

i need to press the starter for 7-8sec, nothing happends.

then i play with the starter for 2 more sec. car tries to run, but aint.

doing it again for another 4-5 times (etc time 2-3sec) until it runs

total - approx 1 min for cold start!

i noticed that-

1: small amount of black smoke is coming out when the car starts.

2: when it starts it starts bad, engine isnt smooth, need to press the gas for 3-4 sec (then the black smoke comes out) until it start.

also, oil is hiding from me (or finds him self a nice way to get out) no oil leaks, all was repaired. im loosing oil approx 0.5 litters etc 1500km. strange? - it can be from the distributor, since its leaking, but i doubt that this amount will lose from there.

what else can be my starting problem?

im thinking of

1: ecu

2: afm

3: distributor.

is it possible that the distributor is bad?!?!

cheers!