Starting Issues - Fit Relay Or Starter Button?

[Dream Weaver 2]

I'm trying to work through all the niggles left on my 205 at the mo, and the worse one is that it only starts 50% of the time. This is hard work as it stops me nipping out in it during the week, knowing that if I go anywhere it probably won't start.

 

It's had a new battery and alternator, the starter motor appears to be fine and i've replaced the entire loom and got rid of the annoying brown multiplug, so all the wiring/connections are brand new from the plug under the dash right through to the starter, senders etc.

 

Sometimes it starts no bother, the Emerald software shows 12v at idle and 13.8v when running, so I can't work out what the issue is. When it won't start I just attach a wire direct to the solenoid, then to the battery and it fires straight away.

 

Or if I charge the battery up it works OK for a month or so.

 

So what's the best course of action?

 

1. Fit a relay to the solenoid wire and take power from the battery?

 

2. Fit a "S2000 style" engine start button as a failsafe?

 

3. Spend hours working out what the problem is (though my 405 Mi did it, and the last engine in this 205 did it also, so its a common issue)

 

How does the relay wire in for anyone that's done that?

[jackherer 543]

If you've replaced all the wiring and it works when you put power straight to the solenoid I'd say it has to be a faulty ignition barrel....

 

a starter button is the easiest, most permanent solution. Just run a fused 12v feed from the battery to a button then to the starter. I use a piggy back spade connector and leave the ignition barrel connected too, that way the starter button can be hidden and only used when needed.

[Jonmurgie 2]

I had a similar strange staring issue with my 205 and it was getting to be a pain so we just wired in a starter button... you still have to have the ignition on but the last turn of the key does nothing, you simply press the button, never fails now

[Dream Weaver 2]

Was the button wired direct to the starter Jon, on its own or did you just use the existing solenoid wire from under the dash?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

When you take the ignition barrel apart they can be a right mess as arcd terminals which doesn't help conductivity, Either a new one of these or what type of starter are you using, Ive always found the late 2.0 style (Small bodied) never give a problem but the 205 ones (Large body) are always a pain in the backside

[vince 0]

I often had troubles with starter on my 205s...

could you clarify something: when you turn the key and the engine doesn't start what happen? does the starter drive the engine or not, because it could then be 2 different kinds of trouble...

 

in another hand everything is new but the starter, then... it may be good to have a look at it.

the solenoid often fails, or sometimes the carbon dust can prevent the starter to turn (clog it). for the second a good hammer helps you to go back home where you can dismantle it and clean it...

 

vince

[dd_156ar 0]

in another hand everything is new but the starter, then... it may be good to have a look at it.

the solenoid often fails, or sometimes the carbon dust can prevent the starter to turn (clog it). for the second a good hammer helps you to go back home where you can dismantle it and clean it...

 

vince

 

Mine was the actual starter in the end - the solenoid had given up the ghost. I was replacing the radiator anyway so took the opportunity to replace the starter at the same time as I had lots of access.

[Jonmurgie 2]

We ran a wire direct from the starter and took the other side of the button from the igntion so it was fused that side... TBH I didn't personally do it though, my wiring buddy did

[Dream Weaver 2]

I often had troubles with starter on my 205s...

could you clarify something: when you turn the key and the engine doesn't start what happen? does the starter drive the engine or not, because it could then be 2 different kinds of trouble...

 

in another hand everything is new but the starter, then... it may be good to have a look at it.

the solenoid often fails, or sometimes the carbon dust can prevent the starter to turn (clog it). for the second a good hammer helps you to go back home where you can dismantle it and clean it...

 

vince

 

When you try it the solenoid just clicks. Sometimes it catches after 2 or 3 clicks, but usually it just won't do anything until you attach a wire to the battery.

 

I may try a different starter.

[vince 0]

it seems very similar to the problems I had so far. I always fixed my trouble by cleaning/changing the starter but never had to play with the wiring. though, I may be wrong...

 

I would clean it first (and see how it looks like), then try like that for some time...

if it doesn't help, then change it before playing with the wiring...

 

to clean it, I usualy remove it and dismantle it...the only difficulty may be the brushes when re-assembling everything back together. I use pieces of wirelock to hold the brushes in position with the spring compressed, then when the aft plate (with brushes) is in position over the rotor I remove the wirelock... easy, one man operation!!!

 

vince

[t16ryan 1]

my mate had one simular fault and he swapped the starter 3 times, ran wires to it which helped, when i checked it it ended up being he had the alternator belt tension really tight i backed it off and it starts first time everytime

[Dream Weaver 2]

it seems very similar to the problems I had so far. I always fixed my trouble by cleaning/changing the starter but never had to play with the wiring. though, I may be wrong...

 

I would clean it first (and see how it looks like), then try like that for some time...

if it doesn't help, then change it before playing with the wiring...

 

to clean it, I usualy remove it and dismantle it...the only difficulty may be the brushes when re-assembling everything back together. I use pieces of wirelock to hold the brushes in position with the spring compressed, then when the aft plate (with brushes) is in position over the rotor I remove the wirelock... easy, one man operation!!!

 

vince

 

I've done my own loom, so messing with the wiring first off is easier for me than swapping starter motors, so i'll try a new relay first. I want to fix the problem for good, rather than having to remove the starter and clean it every now and then.

 

my mate had one simular fault and he swapped the starter 3 times, ran wires to it which helped, when i checked it it ended up being he had the alternator belt tension really tight i backed it off and it starts first time everytime

 

The belt is fairly loose, just enough to charge the battery

 

I'll add a relay, I assume this diagram will suffice (but obviously for the solenoid, not a horn!!)

 

[richard 0]

sounds like mine....is it worse when its hot? Or when youve been on a drive and come back to it?

 

If so it sounds identical to mine. Replaced the starter motor and it has so far been fine.

It can be replaced on a std 1.9/6 without taking the rad or inlet manifold off...i know because even i managed it.

[welshpug 1,622]

Brown Multiplug!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I'm fitting a relay to my next one, its already there from the donor car's loom so I'm going to use it.

 

That circuit should be fine. Mine is wired through the barrel to the relay & wire to the solenoid from the relay.

 

Graham.

[Dream Weaver 2]

sounds like mine....is it worse when its hot? Or when youve been on a drive and come back to it?

 

If so it sounds identical to mine. Replaced the starter motor and it has so far been fine.

It can be replaced on a std 1.9/6 without taking the rad or inlet manifold off...i know because even i managed it.

 

I'll try the relay first, then the starter. I have bodies on mine (Mi), so its easy enough to replace the starter.

 

 

Brown Multiplug!

 

.....and i've replaced the entire loom and got rid of the annoying brown multiplug, so all the wiring/connections are brand new.......

 

Edited November 2, 2006 by Dream Weaver

[welshpug 1,622]

doh!

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I had this problem and it drove me mad for ages.

 

The first attempt which lasted 6 months, all I did was to run a new wire from the ignition to the starter. I left the original wire in place as I was too sure where it went!

 

The far better fix was to take a wire from the ignition (wire that normally drives the starter) and run that through a push switch, which is used to switch a relay. The relay switches a fused supply directly from the battery. I found that if I didnt have the push switch in place the relay never disengaed, even with the ignition off! Because I am using the ignition supply to the starter, when the button is pressed and the engine is running it does noting, which is want you want.

 

So I would suggest, a starter button and relay!

Edited November 2, 2006 by madspikes

[Paintguy 0]

I too have the annoying 'count the clicks before it starts' syndrome.

 

If I ever get the time to do anything on my own car, I'll also be fitting a relay close to the starter. I'll not be bothering with a chavtastic start button though

[SweetBadger 91]

I too have the annoying 'count the clicks before it starts' syndrome.

 

If I ever get the time to do anything on my own car, I'll also be fitting a relay close to the starter. I'll not be bothering with a chavtastic start button though

 

 

Ahhhhhhh! Mine's giving me the same problems, still haven't had chance to drive it properly since fitting my new camshaft!

 

I've totally ripped out the sensor loom and replaced it with a home made one including a nice chunky wire going to the starter solenoid, done away with all of the brown multiplugs, and it's still giving me hassle (worked fine with the inlet manifold off, as soon as I bolted it back together it stopped working again ).

 

The problem with fitting a starter button is, one it's chavvy IMO and its a bit easy to knock or for an annoying passenger to press when the engine's running. I thought one way round this would be to wire the earth to a relay through the alternator/battery warning connection that way when the alternator starts charging the relay would switch off and the starter switch would be disabled. Circuit would look something like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should work, but not sure if it's a good idea to run the extra current drawn by the relay coil through the alternator warning switch...

[Dream Weaver 2]

A starter button doesn't have to be an S2000 style thing, you could just have a hidden momentary toggle switch under the dash somewhere.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

you really want a button, rather than switch.

[jackherer 543]

a 'momentary switch' IS a button by another name

[Dream Weaver 2]

Indeed, just a toggle switch that you hold on and it turns off when you let go, pretty much like an ignition key as well

 

Just a shame the ignition key never works

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

maybe by use, but not by form, which is what i meant:

 

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&...y+toggle+switch

 

vs

 

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&a...p;q=push+button

 

S2000 is the latter, i.e. what i call a button and what i suggested would be better to use.

 

 

 

or maybe get this one:

 

http://www.artmag.com/forest/106gb.html

 

(not work safe ).