Track Project Engine Rebuild (not Mi 16)

[jackherer 543]

I'd prefer a turbo 8v to my current Mi16 - I get bored waiting for the power to arrive.

 

didn't you say you had a 1.9 gearbox the other day? if so thats the reason you get bored waiting for power, and I'd go as far as to say you'd be a lot happier with your whole car if you swapped ratios, 1.9 gearboxes pretty much wipe out any of the benefit of an Mi16 over an 8V IMO..

[smckeown 1]

If anyone uses a 1.9 box for an mi16 then they don't know what they are missing. An mi or other lower ratio box transforms the engine/experience.

 

Sean

[niklas 1]

Turbo is by far more power/£!

A well-built one should be fine on track.. Use modern twinscroll chargers and avoid any noticeable lag.

[TT205 42]

I was at harewood on saturday and the fastest time in the sub 2 litre was 67.6 which was Dave Sykes who is off here, whereas the fastest time in the over 2 litre class was 65.2 which was done by a 550bhp white evo! and the rest of the times in that class where all pretty much the same as the lower class.

 

Thats pretty good for a 205 if you ask me!

 

Very kind mate - cheers

 

You should have come over and had a chat!

 

On topic - you are on slightly thin ice here.

I used to run in class 3 (over 2.0L Road modified) with a Turbo Technics 1.9 which is the class you are discussing here and I used to have great fun

 

BUT, there was never a 1.9 GTI made by Peugeot that came from the factory turbocharged so if you start winning someone might protest you out of the class and you would have to go in mod prods or even sports libre

 

Also - weight wise - as this is the road modified class, you can't strip out, you can only remove carpets and soundproofing and replace bonnet and boot with fibreglass

 

Dave

[bales 1]

Very kind mate - cheers

 

You should have come over and had a chat!

 

On topic - you are on slightly thin ice here.

I used to run in class 3 (over 2.0L Road modified) with a Turbo Technics 1.9 which is the class you are discussing here and I used to have great fun

 

BUT, there was never a 1.9 GTI made by Peugeot that came from the factory turbocharged so if you start winning someone might protest you out of the class and you would have to go in mod prods or even sports libre

 

Also - weight wise - as this is the road modified class, you can't strip out, you can only remove carpets and soundproofing and replace bonnet and boot with fibreglass

 

Dave

 

Yeah I probably should have come over and spoken to you but i'm a bit on the shy side, hopefully if i am competing next year though you should be able to give me some tips though!

 

On the point about the 1.9 turbo engine and that peugeot never made a factory model, I thought that that only referred to the actual engine i,e you cant use a mi16 or other engine. It says in the rules that induction is free and that forced induction adds a 40% displacement penalty. So I thought this meant that it was the same as running carbs or t/b's but with the 40% added.

 

On the weight issue the way I look at it is that the 205's pretty light anyway and you can get much greater torque out of a turbo - which I assume is whats needed when pulling out of the corners uphill etc.. the only problem I can see is making sure you can get traction which a lsd should be able to sort.

Edited September 21, 2006 by bales

[hengti 2]

missed the chance to get in on time and vote (please ignore me if it really is too late!) - but i'd n/a with Jon too

 

if it's a budget engine, then the scope for expense is just so much more in a turbo engine. build costs-reliability etc. it could easily start running away with the budget imo.

[veloce200 3]

On topic - you are on slightly thin ice here.

I used to run in class 3 (over 2.0L Road modified) with a Turbo Technics 1.9 which is the class you are discussing here and I used to have great fun

 

I myself haven't mentioned what it might be used in yet! Car is only eligible for mod prod at present so turboing just moves it up a class. Interesting point though trying to use it in roadgoing, Bit like iron block Mi16. Not strictly legal but people get away with it. The TT must have been cool - any times at Goodwood, Brands or Lydden? What HP did it have?

 

 

missed the chance to get in on time and vote (please ignore me if it really is too late!) - but i'd n/a with Jon too

 

if it's a budget engine, then the scope for expense is just so much more in a turbo engine. build costs-reliability etc. it could easily start running away with the budget imo.

 

please keep the votes coming! I always change my mind at the last minute anyway!

I plan to save though on the turbo conversion -

- no need for TB's

- std valve springs - limit it to 7000 rpm

- remanufactured but rebuilt turbo

- novel approach to intercooling not really thought about this...

- twin scroll idea is nice but dear

[TT205 42]

I myself haven't mentioned what it might be used in yet!

 

No but Bales is talking about Class3 so I thought I'd better put the info there

 

The TT must have been cool - any times at Goodwood, Brands or Lydden? What HP did it have?

 

It was as it came ~175BHP - great fun

 

Never did any of those circuits sorry

[24seven 104]

supercharge it .

[niklas 1]

- twin scroll idea is nice but dear

 

I think you can get hold of cheap secondhand ones from ie Volvo S40/V40 2.0T 2001-. I don't know about the UK but Sweden is crowded with 'em

And with a well designed prep, I guess 170 bhp should be easy and cheap to find...?

[veloce200 3]

I think you can get hold of cheap secondhand ones from ie Volvo S40/V40 2.0T 2001-. I don't know about the UK but Sweden is crowded with 'em

And with a well designed prep, I guess 170 bhp should be easy and cheap to find...?

 

thanks for the tip - although - 170hp? from a turbo 1.6 ? what would be the point !!

[welshpug 1,622]

you have to at least aim at Mini Cooper S Works or Cooper S BBR performance here...

[veloce200 3]

you have to at least aim at Mini Cooper S Works or Cooper S BBR performance here...http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/style_images/1/folder_rte_images/list.gif

Insert List

 

nice. with a lot less weight....!

[niklas 1]

thanks for the tip - although - 170hp? from a turbo 1.6 ? what would be the point !!

 

 

Getting 200+ from such an engine will require a turbocharger that ain't cheap in twinscroll edition so I withdraw that suggestion then

Besides I think the lag will be quite noticeable then...

[veloce200 3]

 

Getting 200+ from such an engine will require a turbocharger that ain't cheap in twinscroll edition so I withdraw that suggestion then

Besides I think the lag will be quite noticeable then...

what's the AR of the one you are thinking of? thx

[welshpug 1,622]

supercharge it then...

[veloce200 3]

supercharging ruled out for:

 

-lower specific bmep

-installation

-reliability

-cost

-noise

[Mattsav 1]

Supercharging would be the best option, no lag, no need to lower compression ratio, easier to install and cheap to buy.

[welshpug 1,622]

and the noise is great!

[veloce200 3]

it's been considered but:

 

personally I don't think it is easy to install

mini's are about the only cheap chargers and they are massive

ulitmately the power potential is less

i suspect it would need more revs to work properly

sound - think RS Turbo vs Mini Cooper - all that whining - sounds like a power steering pump

[niklas 1]

what's the AR of the one you are thinking of? thx

 

Did some quick researching

 

It seems the phase2 models using twin scroll chargers for both 2.0t's and t4's. The models of the chargers are:

 

TD04L-12T

I don't find the exact A/R for this turbo but for the phase1 model, which is 0.41.

In the 2.0 16v volvo engine it puts out 165 but can be boosted up to 200.

 

TD04L-14T

I don't find the exact A/R for this turbo but for the phase1 model, which is 0.61.

In the 1.9 16v volvo engine it puts out 200 but can be boosted up to 240-245.

[Dream Weaver 2]

didn't you say you had a 1.9 gearbox the other day? if so thats the reason you get bored waiting for power, and I'd go as far as to say you'd be a lot happier with your whole car if you swapped ratios, 1.9 gearboxes pretty much wipe out any of the benefit of an Mi16 over an 8V IMO..

 

It's on my to do list for the new year, just can't face the hassle of taking the engine out again at the minute

 

it's been considered but:

 

personally I don't think it is easy to install

mini's are about the only cheap chargers and they are massive

ulitmately the power potential is less

i suspect it would need more revs to work properly

sound - think RS Turbo vs Mini Cooper - all that whining - sounds like a power steering pump

 

I have a vid somewhere of a Polo with Supercharger and it sounds awesome

[veloce200 3]

Did some quick researching

 

It seems the phase2 models using twin scroll chargers for both 2.0t's and t4's. The models of the chargers are:

 

TD04L-12T

I don't find the exact A/R for this turbo but for the phase1 model, which is 0.41.

In the 2.0 16v volvo engine it puts out 165 but can be boosted up to 200.

 

TD04L-14T

I don't find the exact A/R for this turbo but for the phase1 model, which is 0.61.

In the 1.9 16v volvo engine it puts out 200 but can be boosted up to 240-245.

 

excellent thanks. those hp figures are quite low for a "traditional" AR figure. Do you know any more about the compressor and exhaust turbines themselves? thanks very much. nice looking units. Found a pic of one - any idea what the second pressure attachment on the compressor side does? Looks like a wastegate or dumpvalve on intake side?

Edited September 22, 2006 by veloce200

[niklas 1]

excellent thanks. those hp figures are quite low for a "traditional" AR figure. Do you know any more about the compressor and exhaust turbines themselves? thanks very much. nice looking units. Found a pic of one - any idea what the second pressure attachment on the compressor side does? Looks like a wastegate or dumpvalve on intake side?

 

Found some more info here:

http://www.melett.com/pdfs/MHI/Mhi%20TD04.pdf

 

I'm really not into the turbo world at all, so I have no idea what AR really means and relates to or which parts are what on the chargers.

I just figure that some of these modern more-or-less-lag-free chargers from common production cars would be a cheap and smooth way for reasonable power targets...