Ignition Map Configurator

[Jakob 1]

Hi

The Ignition Map Configurator has allready been tested at a Danish tuning forum, however it would be much appriciated to have some of your oppinions as well.

 

I am looking for comparison with existing well working maps or just reviews from start-up experience with the Configurator. Please note that the spark table are not 300% "knock-safe", but rather aiming against an average well working/tuned map.

 

When giving feedback please list your engine setups as chosen in the configurator.

 

Download the Ignition Map Configurator here: http://www.powerforum.dk/download.php?id=1932

 

Thank you in advance

 

/Jakob

Edited September 3, 2006 by Jakob

[Malachy 0]

i will have a look at this tonight cheers:)

[Jakob 1]

Great! any feedback is much appriciated.

 

***OBS*** NEV version 1.06 is to be downloaded here: http://www.powerforum.dk/download.php?id=1933

(It is a pain in the A.. that editing is not possible in this forum - then I could just have replaced the link)

 

 

Please have in mind that it is not possible to make any 100% pre-configurated map as the variables are crossing each other in too many ways. Calculating MBT (minimal advance for best tourge) = not possible, just like finding peak pressure / max tourge area and setting(retard) MBT after this. Setting an ignition right is not to be calculated.

 

However, having this in mind the goal of this configurator is to give a good estimated ignition map as a start-up map, based on the factors Valves/cyll., CR, Octan, Temperature, Squish and water injection.

[Malachy 0]

Great! any feedback is much appriciated.

 

***OBS*** NEV version 1.06 is to be downloaded here: http://www.powerforum.dk/download.php?id=1933

(It is a pain in the A.. that editing is not possible in this forum - then I could just have replaced the link)

 

 

Please have in mind that it is not possible to make any 100% pre-configurated map as the variables are crossing each other in too many ways. Calculating MBT (minimal advance for best tourge) = not possible, just like finding peak pressure / max tourge area and setting(retard) MBT after this. Setting an ignition right is not to be calculated.

 

However, having this in mind the goal of this configurator is to give a good estimated ignition map as a start-up map, based on the factors Valves/cyll., CR, Octan, Temperature, Squish and water injection.

 

i used it and put themap onto my msns+extra now.

i haven't been able to test much since car is off the road now, but it definatly seems to rev free'r than what it did before. i wont be able to get any proper tests done until i do somemore work on the car

[Jakob 1]

Thanks that is good to hear. Actually me and another guy had the same experience with more rev-willingness. Some maps tend to have max advance @ 100 kpa allready at 3000 rpm and then keeping the same advance all the way up to max rpm only to be retarded a bit in between due to max tourge rpm area. I had this kind of map to beginn with, but I changed it to be more rpm depended and that resulted in more rev willingness. This configurator is rpm depended.

 

Please always have in mind that the configurator does not take max tourge area into account. This area are not to be estimated/calculated but rather to be mapped on a dyno. (At max tourge area peak pressure is highest as the air filling of the cyllinder is here at it greatest. This means higher air pressure in the cyllinder and the ignition is often to be retarded a bit in this area due to detonation risc - In this area fueling is also at it highest due to max amount of air in cyllinder per cycle). However the configurator should give a good startup map aiming at being closest to a simular average tuned map - not nessecarely over-retarded-100%-knock- Safe".

 

/Jakob

Edited September 4, 2006 by Jakob

[Malachy 0]

Thanks that is good to hear. Actually me and another guy had the same experience with more rev-willingness. Some maps tend to have max advance @ 100 kpa allready at 3000 rpm and then keeping the same advance all the way up to max rpm only to be retarded a bit in between due to max tourge rpm area. I had this kind of map to beginn with, but I changed it to be more rpm depended and that resulted in more rev willingness. This configurator is rpm depended.

 

Please always have in mind that the configurator does not take max tourge area into account. This area are not to be estimated/calculated but rather to be mapped on a dyno. (At max tourge area peak pressure is highest as the air filling of the cyllinder is here at it greatest. This means higher air pressure in the cyllinder and the ignition is often to be retarded a bit in this area due to detonation risc - In this area fueling is also at it highest due to max amount of air in cyllinder per cycle). However the configurator should give a good startup map aiming at being closest to a simular average tuned map - not nessecarely over-retarded-100%-knock- Safe".

 

/Jakob

i have another excel sheet someone done on the megasquirt forums

 

might be worth comparing them

 

here

Edited September 4, 2006 by Malachy

[Jakob 1]

I can not open the link. Could you please post it again. It could be very usefull. I have only seen one besides my own and it was also from an MS forum, but it was very simple and retarded way too much. It used a constant factor +3/-3 per 10 Kpa for advance/retard on all settings and engine setup.

[Malachy 0]

I can not open the link. Could you please post it again. It could be very usefull. I have only seen one besides my own and it was also from an MS forum, but it was very simple and retarded way too much. It used a constant factor +3/-3 per 10 Kpa for advance/retard on all settings and engine setup.

i just checked link andit seems to work try again

 

it is

http://www.aoxv99.dsl.pipex.com/ignitionti...matormodded.xls

[Jakob 1]

i just checked link andit seems to work try again

 

it is

http://www.aoxv99.dsl.pipex.com/ignitionti...matormodded.xls

 

Ok, this is from the same source. It has max advance @ 100 Kpa at 3000 rpm and has the same advance all the way up the rev line. Also the retard/advance factor is constant +/- 3 per 10 kpa up to the limits for for max %-100Kpa/retard and mas advance values (set by the user). It is two ways of making an estimated map. I find the rev depended way much more valid and usefull.

 

The overall goal is to get the timing to have max pressure on the piston at 14 degrees ATDC (after top dead center) on the pistons way down. As the mixture burns in different speed depending on a various set of variables (basicly those listed in my configurator minus some less important/relevant) we ignite the gasses BTDC (before top dead center) to have the combustion hit with max effect on 14 degrees ATDC during the piston cycle. As the burnrate speed increases on its way to max tourge area (> 3000 rpm) plus the rpm is still increasing (giving the combustion even fewer milliseconds to slam at 14 degr. ATDC), the ignition timing should be very much depended on the rpm scaling. This however should not be taken as specific criticism of this or any ignitiontimingestimator as it is impossible (as earlier stated) to 100% calculate a correct map. All configurators has their limitations and one has to decide on these vs. strategy/goal and interests. Having said that using constant timing @ 100 Kpa from 3000 rpm and upwards (the 100 Kpa line founds the constant in the other calculations) is the wrong way to go - as I see it.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Jakob

[petert 550]

It's certainly a good starting point, but the only way to confirm any advance/load point is on the dyno, watching the Nm's.

[Malachy 0]

It's certainly a good starting point, but the only way to confirm any advance/load point is on the dyno, watching the Nm's.

yeah but dyno time being £80+ per hour then the less time on the dyno the better for my back pocket id liek to get as close as possible then tweak on dyno rather than start from nothing on dyno )