Diy Mi16 Turbo Manifold

[Rippthrough 98]

TD04 turbo from a scooby

 

Turboitis is spreading I see

 

Epidemic in the S.Yorks group!

 

 

 

-Phillip

[Malachy 0]

now since i already have a 8v turbo manifold could i not just cut the head side of the manifold of and then weld the 16v manifold onto it as such, hard to explain what i mean.

 

1. take 8v turbo manifold remove 8v manifold>head flange

2. take 16v stock manifold remove manifold>head flange

3 get welder out and weld together using pipes if needed to join up nicely.

 

 

i think it works in theory but i think you will have clearance issues with the bulkhead :/

 

might look into this

Edited September 4, 2006 by Malachy

[pugrallye 0]

wouldnt use a TD04, they are pretty pants designed for low boost set up (hence you find them so commonly on ebay) plus have the weird scooby flange design, go for a TD05 if you can find one

Edited September 4, 2006 by pugrallye

[Guest rick03054]

now since i already have a 8v turbo manifold could i not just cut the head side of the manifold of and then weld the 16v manifold onto it as such, hard to explain what i mean.

 

1. take 8v turbo manifold remove 8v manifold>head flange

2. take 16v stock manifold remove manifold>head flange

3 get welder out and weld together using pipes if needed to join up nicely.

i think it works in theory but i think you will have clearance issues with the bulkhead :/

 

might look into this

 

Sound possible but if it's just the flange your after why not sell the 8v manifold you have and either buy a flange or have one made up? Then get it welded onto the head side of the 16v manifold.

 

The dimensions of a t25 flange are here if it helps? (save as then zoom if it's too small)

 

However as you say, I think there may be SERIOUS bulkhead clearance issues.

Edited September 4, 2006 by rick03054

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

T16 can run 350bhp on a T25!!!

no, it cannot.

[M3Evo 0]

Thought T25s were supposed to run out of puff at 200and-a-bit horsepower?

[petert 550]

Someone mentioned to me there's a Mitsubishi turbo manifold that bolts straight on to an XU10J4 head. Can anyone confirm this?

[M@tt 77]

Well i've had a slight change as the original turbo i won off ebay i'm not getting anymore as a bloke for work has given me his old one off his scooby STI fro free

 

The one from his is a IHI VF35

 

I've started stripping it as its seized from being sat around too long and so will refurb it - found a good guide here www.smbaker.com.com/rail/ihirhb5.html

 

Anyone have any info etc about this tubo and its suitability?

[Mandic 0]

Someone mentioned to me there's a Mitsubishi turbo manifold that bolts straight on to an XU10J4 head. Can anyone confirm this?

 

Spacing seems about right and it has oval ports:

 

Lancer:

 

Eclipse:

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[petert 550]

My goodness. Isn't that remarkable. Looks more like XU9J4.

[M@tt 77]

thats an interesting find, but i think for a 205 application it probably wouldn't be suitable due to the space constraint between the block and the bulkhead hence the 205 style one flowing out to the side of the engine instead of down.

[Mandic 0]

There are probably some other versions available on the market, not just this one.

 

@petert, jup, perfect for XU9J4, if the port spacings are right

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

There is a Toyota turbo manifold that has the correct spacing already ...only needs 2 bolt holes redrilled.

[petert 550]

There is a Toyota turbo manifold that has the correct spacing already ...only needs 2 bolt holes redrilled.

 

Go on then! You've got us all wondering now.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Thought T25s were supposed to run out of puff at 200and-a-bit horsepower?

 

 

 

That's such a meaningless statement - 200bhp from a 1.1 TU, 200bhp on a Rover V8? You can't possibly quantify what "max" horsepower can be achieved with a certain turbo as it all depends on what state of tune, what mods and what current horsepower the engine has already. The turbo will just increase the power by a certain percentage based on what boost it can run. So you need to rate turbo's by what max boost they can realistically achieve. With the T25 in question, it's good for upto about 1Bar (14 psi). It's too small really to run anymore boost as it would have to spin at silly speeds and would thus create a lot of heat which would in turn negate the benefits of the increased boost.

 

In real world terms you are probably looking at 230bhp as the most you could feasibly achieve from an XU 8v run on a T25, dependant upon other engine mods of course.

 

Which in a 205 is enough!

[M3Evo 0]

Eh? How you figure?

 

Surely a 1.1 making 200bhp will be consuming about the same amount of air as a 3.5 making 200bhp?

 

So now we're talking about how much air and exhaust gas can get through the turbo as direct factors effecting the amount of power the turbo can be used to make.

 

The bigger engine will only need a little pressure to get to the 200bhp, the smaller engine will need much more, but the limiting factor is still the amount of flow, not the pressure.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

No, not at all. If a Rover V8 is already making 198bhp in N/A are you saying that if you add a T25 turbo then it will only be good for another 2bhp or so???

 

The limiting factor on an N/A engine is the amount of flow becuase it can only rely on atmospheric pressure to push air into the cylinders. If you introduce a turbo into the equation you are increasing the amount of air that can flow into the cylinders (by increasing the voume of air in any given volume). So you are effectively increasing the capacity of the engine. This is also why there are far smaller differences between the potential power of 8v and 16v turbocharged engines compared to NA 8&16v engines. With the additional 2v per cylinders in a 16v engine, you are maximizing the flow at atmospheric pressure and using it more efficiently. Thus why 16v NA engines will always be capable of making considerably more power than an equivalent 8v engine.

The same is not true with turbocharged engines as whilst the 16v maybe more effecient than the 8v, you can simply keep increasing the pressure and thus air, making the 2 engines capable of far more similar power.

[M3Evo 0]

Yeah, you can keep upping the pressure, but the turbo will only flow a given volume of air/unit time.

 

Lets say you need to flow 1cc of fuel/min to make 1bhp, that 1cc of fuel weighs 1g and that both our turbocharged 1.1 and our turbocharged 3.5 are to make 200bhp. (plucking figures out of the air here )

 

We can see that we'll need to add 200cc of fuel/min to achieve our goal, and that'll need to be combined with the corresponding amount of air which, in our theoretical universe needs to be a 15:1mix by mass.

 

So, to make 200bhp, we'll need 200g*15=3kg of air/min going into both engines.

 

Now lets say that our tiny little (theoretical) T25 can only flow 2.5kg of air/min, we see that we can't make 200bhp with it, regardless of engine size or the pressure required to make our desired power.

 

I know I'm ignoring factors like the effect of pressure ratios on the efficiency of the turbo for a given flow rate and the efficiency of different designs of engine, but it's just to illustrate the point that a given turbo can flow a given volume of air/unit time efficiently, and that equates to a given amount of power which means it's not a meaningless statement at all.

Edited September 6, 2006 by M3Evo

[TEKNOPUG 3]

OK, agreed, it isn't completely meaningless but it's a pretty inaccurate way of measuring the capabilty of a turbo as so many other engine factors have to be taken into account to get a potential power figure (and even non-engine specific factors such as intercooling/water-injection etc) More useful just to quote it's maximum boost potential.

 

But we digress. There are definitely a few people running Xu8v T25's with in excess of 220bhp and using a more modern GT25 increases the potential further still.

[Mandic 0]

I'd like to add a few things, the difference between 8v and 16v is in flow restriction, so 16v will produce more power/torque at a same pressure as 8v.

 

Now look at the turbo pressure maps, check the efficiency islands and You'll get the picture

 

Like M3Evo says, T25 can only flow a certain amount of air and taking that air and mating it with correct AFR You'll see that it ends at a certain point. You can go a bit further with other mods, making the engine more efficient.

 

And sice 16v has less restriction (flows better) it will produce more power.

 

As for those high power 8v's, check wheel fiugres and I bet they have 15 or so % of transmission losses...

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Well I guess that you can question RR operators estimates until the cows come home.....

 

read here for example http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=34526

[pugrallye 0]

Those VF35's are very good, can flow a decent amount of air too, i have one here which i believe is scrap as it has a damaged vane on compressor wheel, any good for spares??

[welshpug 1,622]

if a mitsubishi eclipse turbo manifold fits any EVO Manifold would fit as thyre the same engine and floorpan

 

Hilgie is it the 3SGTE manifold tha\t can be made to fit? (toyota 2 litre turbo as found in GT4 and MR2)

[Malachy 0]

this one?

 

 

that whole kit is £170:(

Edited September 7, 2006 by Malachy

[pugrallye 0]

hmmm thats worryingly cheap suspect quality!