Speaker Problemo

[Billy_boy 0]

hi guys

 

just a quick question. i have got some rather loud 300w infinity 6x9s on my parcel shelf and some 130w door speakers, the problem is there is hardly any noise coming from the door speakers... the 6x9s are running of an amp and the door speakers off the head unit is this why they are so quie?t or do i need more powerfull door speakers???

 

cheers

[NoodleVille 0]

the front speakers on there own probably arent that quiet.

your comparing the to amped 6by9 just buy a cheap little clean amp and amp the fronts will be much louder might even sound louder than the rear shelf speakers.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

the front speakers on there own probably arent that quiet.

your comparing the to amped 6by9 just buy a cheap little clean amp and amp the fronts will be much louder might even sound louder than the rear shelf speakers.

 

Noodle's right, you're making an unfair comparison. Were the front speakers provided with some proper amplification, then you'd feel differently. HOWEVER, you and other people must stop being fooled by 'wowie' figures on speakers (and to some extent amps too). 300W infinitys is kind of irrelevant if you're only supplying them with a head unit's typical clean RMS output of maybe 14Watts.

 

Also these pie in the sky figures, and don't get me wrong you DO need power handling capability for a decently amplified system, are just designed to make you buy the item. Infinity make good products, and these speakers can undoubtedly sound very good if installed correctly, but if you ever got them to handle 300W of peak/max power throughtput, you'd go deaf instantly.

 

Here's my advice. Based on these two facts: music is subjective, so it's about what you think sounds good, but if you hear better, then take on board what the 'expert' says. Your ears generally accept music better from the front - as proof, you don't go to a concert and turn your back to the band - so this is where you should make your efforts on getting the best sound. Make sure your front speakers are solidly mounted, wired in-phase which means + output from amp (head unit or seperate) goes to + terminal of speaker (better bass and imaging that way), and use your rear speakers as what is called rear fill.

 

Use your fader (front rear balance) on your head unit - which incidently could possibly be the reason your output is low - AND WITH THE AMP POWERING THE FRONT SPEAKERS AND THE HEAD UNIT POWERING THE REARS, start with the fader on full front (i.e. zero rear), and set your volume control on 3/4 of max. Then increase the gain control on your amplifier to the point where the front speakers only just start to distort - then back the gain off just a touch. This will get very loud, trust me. In fact, you'll be surprised, if your amp has one, that using it's crossover/high pass facility to just cut off the lowest bass frequencies around 60-100Hz means you'll be able to get the sound right up the front where, as I mentioned earlier it should be. Your front speakers will sound better this way and last longer.

 

Then gently creep up the rear level using the fader. You'll notice that this lifts the sound stage at the front and widens it, but only go as far as (a) the image is still concentrated up front and ( the rear speakers don't sound distorted. This should all be done at 3/4 max vol, so it'll be loud and you should find somewhere decent to do this. The rear speakers should also be wired correctly.

 

My final advice, and what really tops a system is a bit of sub-bass. It just fills in the bottom octaves and completes the picture, as well as helping your other speakers perform better, because they CAN NEVER handle the power/bass as well a dedicated sub or subs. I'm so confident this set-up will improve your system, (you can set up the sub the same 3/4 way), that you won't need that stupid loudness button on in your car ever again. You could even use the amp you have to power the sub, and run the front and rears off the headunit, but you should use the fader as I said but you'll be at the mercy of the headunit's amplifier when it starts distorting. But it WILL player louder without the loudness on.

 

OK I've waffled. But trust in me. I have 5 amps, 2 extra batteries, 4 subs and a beautiful front up soundstage that I reckon even Cliff Richard or Kylie could sound good in.

 

Best regards and good luck

 

Dr S

 

Post more or PM if help needed.

[NoodleVille 0]

nice reply listen to the guy knows his stuff

 

another thing i just wanna add start at the front work your way backwards you can have the best speakers and subs ever made but if you have a rubbish head unit giving highly distored signals at the end you will have highly distorted very loud signals

 

just got a question for you now dr sarty got me all interested in what the loud buttin actually does my HU doesnt have one has something called media expander instead lol all i remeber is when i did have it i turned it on and all hel broke lose from my speakers bass distortion left right and centre.

 

oh and fancy telling me what setup your running interested in upgrading mine and you sound like you know a fair bit

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

what the loud buttin actually does my HU doesnt have one has something called media expander instead lol all i remeber is when i did have it i turned it on and all hel broke lose from my speakers bass distortion left right and centre.

 

oh and fancy telling me what setup your running interested in upgrading mine and you sound like you know a fair bit

 

OK then Noodle. 'Loudness' (and perhaps your media expander too), are a circuit in most head units to cater for the fact that human hearing is not linear. Let me explain: typical sound frequencies we can actually hear range between 20Hz and 20kHz (20,000) - in fact that is one of the things that MP3/WMA compression does when you rip from CD, it gets rid of the stuff outside this band, which does lend something to the music BUT most people would never notice it's gone, certainly on an iPod on the London underground.

 

Now the human ear doesn't hear all frequencies evenly at different volume levels. Two examples of this are we hear VERY VERY EASILY (I know this), a baby's cry and for that matter a scream. It's not just the volume, our hearing is pretty sensitive at about 3kHz, hence the little blighters' cries are centered there, making you wince a little.

 

Now the loudness button - the other example is bass, which as volume decreases we stop hearing quite as much as we did, similarly with treble, and what the loudness circuit does is equalize (boosting not cutting), the frequency bands that humans typically start losing at lower vols. As this circuit is boosting, that's why distortion will kick in a lot earlier when you wind up the vol, hence me saying, if your system's set up right, you shouldn't ever need it. You may find you have a loudness as well as media expander, which again may be another equaliser circuit which can give the illusion, just like the loudness button does, of better sound.

 

As for distorting headunits, you will always get what you pay for. External amplifiers should be run by the pre-amp (red & white RCA/phono) leads that run from your headunit. Even then, some headunits produce higher, cleaner levels of signal and allow you to comfortably use most if not all (Alpine 7939) of the volume range. In short, head unit amps are like t*ts on a fish, but if that's all you want, can afford etc etc then if you follow my two posts you'll get pretty good if not earth shattering results.

 

I cannot stress enough the importance of fitting speakers solidly to get decent bass. Sod this 200W, 800W lark, a speaker makes no power whatsoever, it's really a resistor absorbing it. So it's the same and equally as uncool as saying I can handle 34 right hooks....wanna see?

 

Amplify properly, subs aren't essential because a really well fitted set of component speakers up front can produce a surprising thump, BUT you'll never get much 60hz and down - that's really what subs (in a music not SPL system anyway) are for.

 

My system: Pioneer DEH9400MP (usually play 320khz MP3s), totally active and time aligned to a KEC202 electronic crossover which distributes the 3V preamp signals in frequency bands like sub-bass, mid-bass, mid-range (dash 4" mids) & high range (tweeters) to the 5 amps. 3 x Kenwood 4channel KAC848's doing doors, dash & rear fill - 1 x (legendary) Kenwood KAC1023 powering 2 JL 10W6's doing upper sub-bass (around 60 to 100HZ) and 1 x Earthquake DHC200 class D amp chucking 1000W RMS x 2 into another 2 JLs in a bandpass box playing 60Hz all the way down. It's no way the best in the world, but it's pure, can really bang and the point is...as I said...it's about taste and this makes you grin & grin & grin. MMmmmmmm!

[NoodleVille 0]

sounds awesome mate running some jl myself i only got the 12" WO though even those imo are very nice lol

i would love to hear your system sounds like youv spent a fortune on it next time your ever down anywere near south west gimme a post on hear would love to have a gander at that

 

just to add i doubht that billy boy is even following this thread anymore lol

 

hope you dnt mind me racking your brains but you clearly know your stuff

 

what are the advantages/ explanaition of running subs off 2 ohm as i am yet to start reading up on ohm loads and atm have spent my money avoiding having to try and wire it up as 2 ohm and kept at 4 ohm each sub

 

in my mind at the moment i seem to think(probably wrong) that when you start to run 2 ohm you lose clarity ie %thd increases is that right all power readings seem to be higher at 2 ohm ie amps put out more power at 2 ohm why is this ?

 

if you could answer that for me would make me a very happy man lol i have been baffled by homs for a while there starting to bug me

 

cheers

 

joe

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

i would love to hear your system sounds like youv spent a fortune on it next time your ever down anywere near south west gimme a post on hear would love to have a gander at that

 

EDIT: I WILL. WE WOULD DRIVE PAST ON OUR WAY DOWN TO DEVON TO VISIT OLD FOLKS.

 

just to add i doubht that billy boy is even following this thread anymore lol

 

EDIT: YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT, BUT HE MAY BECOME THE NEXT IASCA WORLD CHAMPION THE FORUM'S HELPED ME MANY TIMES, I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE SOMETHING IN RETURN

 

in my mind at the moment i seem to think(probably wrong) that when you start to run 2 ohm you lose clarity ie %thd increases is that right all power readings seem to be higher at 2 ohm ie amps put out more power at 2 ohm why is this ?

 

EDIT: YOUR ANSWERS LIE BELOW....

 

Don't bother reading up (other than this really) on ohms and stuff, unless you want a career as an electronics technician. Your time's better spent installing and enjoying the music!

 

I mentioned in this thread that a speaker is a resistor or at least acts as one. What I mean is it's a load on a circuit. Resistors have a fixed load but speakers actually vary. NOW I am NOT an electronics guru I'm a music lover, so whoever wants to criticise what I say you're wasting your time, as I'm just giving a street educated, practical explanation Speaker 'resistance' (and this is true for tweeters to subs) is referred to as impedance, i.e. a speaker's desire to impede (slow down, restrict whatever) the electrical current passing thru it (i.e. coming in and whizzing round it's voice coil(s) and buggering off again). And this impedence varies.

 

(Gonna just talk about subs now) You can get from the manufacturers and out of software you use to design speaker enclosures impedence curves (as I said it varies), but really to joe bloggs (or as my Scandanavian missus says 'Blobbs' )....who needs 'em?? What I'm saying is, a speaker will have a nominal (typical) impedence or load on a circuit, i.e. the amp-thru speaker wire-through voice coil(s)-back thru speaker wire to amp = circuit I'm blathering on about. Hopefully you'll now read into this that all of those components present a load on the circuit, and would you know it even the speaker enclosure (box) you use will have an effect - hence the use of a simplified 'nominal' impedence, which typically in car systems is 4ohms per speaker. This figure originated I think based on original equipment capabilities to draw power through a 12v (which when running is nearer 14-15v) car system.

 

This has started to change simply based on amplifiers becoming better made, more efficient and what it all really boils down to which is current draw. Modern amps are capable of drawing more current hence being more powerful and being able to handle heaver loads. Now in amplifier terms, and this is what might 'bake your noodle' (line from the Matrix) a bit Mr noodle, is that a heavier load is actually a lower impedence!!! In so much as a heavier load being carried by a person makes them work harder, and that's what a LOWER impendence makes an amplifier do: amp working harder = drawing more current.

 

So you should see where I'm going now. If you make something work harder they can start to struggle, which is why if you start to overload an amp something's gonna start to give and at best it'll be sound quality - at worst it'll be melted components (expensive & annoying) all the way to car fire (really annoying or you being dead! )

 

THD (total harmonic distortion) which is really a rating of how crap an amp will sound when pushed, on modern, more capable amps that have decent power supplies/components etc will produce increasingly more power - up to a limit which will be specified!!!! - as you load them up, i.e. present them with LOWER impedences. I'll explain how that's done in a jiffy. Really the human ear won't notice THD before it reeaches 10%, but this is another one of those stats that I would advise you to not give two hoots about - just operate your amp within it's specified impedence load and set up the amp gain correctly using the method I said in an earlier reply. For example, check out an amp's specs and it may say/deliver: 50W RMS into 4ohms & 100W RMS into 2ohms (and then some waffle about THD). Only be wary of the THD bit if it ever (rarely if ever) says over 10%.

 

This shows the current trend with decent amps that their power supplies, PROVIDING YOU INSTALL THEM CORRECTLY, will be able to handle lower impedences, drawing up to twice the current from your electrical system to deliver twice the nominal load power. In fact some manufacturers, and this is how some people win sound-off competitions in high power classes with what looks like a 2 x 25W amp, build amps that are designed as high current amplifiers capable of running incredibly low impedences (aka heavy speaker loads). Still haven't explained that yet...but I will. E.G. 2 x 25Watts RMS into 4ohms stereo = 1x100w RMS into 4ohms mono/bridged = 1 x 200W into 2 = 1 x 400W into 1 and 1 x 800W into 0.5ohm!!! If you don't believe me look up some manufacturers like Lanzar, Earthquake, Kicker, Genesis, Soundstream etc who build top notch products where they have amps (usually dedicated to subs such as 'd' class amps) that will say '0.5ohm stable'.

 

OK, how do we load up our amp? Well first we ONLY do it if it's capable, so check first, don't be a pratt! There is a formula but I'll say that in a tick. Usually you will be wanting to lower the impedance to get more power, and this is done by putting the voice coils of speakers OR a speaker in parallel. Parallel means your +ve lead from your +ve amp terminal goes to the +ve terminals on your speaker/speakers. I need to mention at this point dual voice coil speakers, which if you simplify it are simply two speakers/loads in one, so a twin 4ohm voice coil sub (1 speaker) will present the amp with a similar load to 2x4ohm subs (2 speakers). And parallelling voice coils (that's what I'll refer to now using VC), halves the impedence. So 2 x 4ohm VC = 2ohm load, which in turn means double the power from the amp, so the twin VC speaker gets twice the power or you get 2 subs both getting the power that one would've got...BONUS

 

I'll show the formula in a sec, but this works the same for any of the typically rated subs (remember think voice coils (VC)). 2 x 8ohm VC in parallel = 4ohm. 2 x 3ohm = 1.5ohm load etc etc. So if you have 4 x 8ohm subs (single VC each), then wired parallel you get a 2ohm load. Same would be true of 2 x dual 8ohm VC subs, all VC in parallel = 2ohm. JL audio have excellent tutorials on their site if I'm not explaining this clearly, where the PDF downloads, even for the models of subs show impedence wiring diagrams so you can't be a spanner and screw it up.

 

The formula for wiring subs in parallel is (VC imp x VC imp) / (divided by) (VC imp + VC imp). E.G. 4x4 / 4+4 = 16 / 8 = 2, just like I said. Keeping this short (!!! ), series wiring is really doubling the impedence instead, i.e. the opposite 2 x 4ohm VC in series = 8ohm. Series wiring is really making a chain. +ve amp output to VC 1 +ve - VC 1 -ve (i.e. picture the signal coming in to the VC +ve and out its -ve) then goes to VC 2 +ve, where VC 2's -ve then goes back to the amp -ve terminal. Like I said it's like daisy chaining as opposed to parallel wiring which is simpler and jis ust all plus's to plus's etc. Visit <www.jlaudio.com> if you haven't done so already.

 

In summary, don't get too bogged down in it. Give us a call if you're ever stuck, confused or want an idea. There are plenty of single voice coil subs that handle loads of power which you can match up with a single amp that dishes it out. The secret is matching up and planning ahead. E.G. you want/have room for 2 subs but can only afford 1 plus an amp. So you could buy a 4ohm singleVC sub but buy an lovely amp that'll drive a 2 ohm load, running it first into the single sub, then fitting the second sub when you can afford it wired in parallel which means you'll get literally double the system you had before, because the amp instead of giving a 100W RMS into one sub is now giving you 200W RMS with 100W RMS going into each sub representing a huge approx 6dB leap in output (10dB is about double the volume by the way). I do not recommend however only powering one VC of a twin VC sub until your money builds up.

 

As you can see, it's quite fascinating stuff but quite simple really, and the options are astoundingly varied All it takes is a bit of imagination, planning and bargain hunting.

 

Good luck

 

Dr S

[NoodleVille 0]

i still a bit baffled by it all if this is the case as your saying about subs running twin 4 ohm voice coils wireing them in paralell will give you 2 ohm to each voice coil

 

obviously amp would have to be 2 ohm stable. why do they call it dual 4 ohm to run it at 4 ohm you would need an 8 ohm stable amp. unless you could run each voice coil off a different channel from your amp confuddled lol

 

and another quick question why whats the difference between an 8 ohm sub and a 1 ohm sub i fail to see the physical differences.

 

if this is correct i could pump some serious power from some 2ohm stable amp into 2 dual 4 ohm subs

 

for eg 1 4 channel amp bridged into both subs could run then each voice coil at 2 ohm giving a imo loud bass. so why then after all this am i more confused

 

i am stilll incredibly baffled by the fact that it states on the sub 4 ohm voice coil yet you put 2 ohms through it and its ok if not better due to more power being available at lower ohm does that mean you can put any ohm you want through any sub and it will be ok.

 

another example if i had a 1 ohm stable 2 channel amp i could run 2 dual 4ohm subs off of 1 channel in effect have 4 subs off that amp at 1 ohm lol

 

are dual voice coil subs better than single voice coil ones in the same scenario as above couldnt i run double the amount of subs 4 subs off 1 channel at 1 ohm thats a total of 8 subs at 1 ohm would surely sound better than just 4 subs

 

??????/ PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME lol this is baffling stuff really wanna try and get my head around it

[Paintguy 0]

Noodleville, I haven't read all of Dr Sartys post, but from your reply, I think you have your wires crossed a little (excuse the pun!)

 

Say for example you have a dual voice coil (DVC) sub, with both coils rated at 4 Ohms. Wiring the coils in parallel wont change the impedance of the coils themselves, as your first paragraph says, but it will cause the amp to 'see' a 2 Ohm load. Wire them in series, and you still have two 4 Ohm voice coils, but amp 'sees' them as a single 8 Ohm one.

 

And beware of your examples about bridging and low-ohm stability: If an amp is 2 Ohm stable (on each channel), then it will only be stable at 4 Ohms when bridged. I'm not eloquent enough to describe it properly, but in effect, each of the channels on a bridged amp sees half the load.

 

another example if i had a 1 ohm stable 2 channel amp i could run 2 dual 4ohm subs off of 1 channel in effect have 4 subs off that amp at 1 ohm lol

Yes you could in theory, but beware that (in general) the lower the impedance (Ohms) the amp runs at, the more current it will draw, and the more heat it will produce.

 

And you may not actually see much benefit from it either. Some of the so-called cheater amps that are mentioned above are designed to be loaded up at very low Ohm load, and their power supplies can cope with the current draw, and double the power output of the amp as impedance halves. But many cannot, and can't actually produce any more continuous power at lower loads (since the internal supply can't keep up), but can sometimes supply a little more peak power ( with the internal 'caps supplying the extra juice needed)

 

are dual voice coil subs better than single voice coil ones in the same scenario

 

No. Not better, just different.

e.g. the same sub with dual 4 Ohm coils is technically no better than the same one with a single 2 Ohm coil. It just seems to have become a trend to make subs DVC nowadays, but apart from the more flexible wiring options, they have no real advantage over SVC ones.

 

 

Of course I've generalised all the above slightly, and there are exceptions, as with everything, but what I've said stands for the majority of equipment. There's always those who'll wire up a single coil in a DVC sub, and put a variable resistor on the other, to tune the drivers Qes, and thus overall Q, but that's on a whole other level.....

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It's easy to see why Paintguy is pitcrew - an excellent post confirm what I said in mine. Noodle...you must NOT get confused by this ohms rubbish, honestly people like us WANT to help.

 

Paintguy used the phrase 'the amplifier sees', and that is exactly correct. A voice coil (VC) has an impedence - a natural ability (a bit like a woman) to resist stuff - in this case an alternating, wavey davey like current from your amp. That VC's impedence does fluctuate as I said, but it has a nominal/typical impedence value which doesn't change. So, a 4ohm VC IS a 4ohm VC. If a sub has 2 VCs, and you wire them in parallel, i.e. amp plus to both speaker pluses, amp negs doing the same - the amp will 'see' a 2 ohm load. If the amp can deliver 200W RMS into a 4ohm load, and is rated/powerful/well built enough to handle a 2ohm (read: more difficult) load at the typical level, it will now produce for you 400W RMS. Please note here that what PG said I missed, in so much as I was simply talking about for clarity's sake a single channel/mono block amplifier. This 400W you've now obtained from your wiring skills means you've got more power from your amp.

 

There is no right or wrong way of using this ability of yours and amps, it's just down to imagination and what you can afford to do, either by limitations of space, finances or both. If you want twin 15inch subs then make your purchase WITH your amp, aiming to get maximum safe power from the amp with your wiring configuration. So amps don't push or whatever these magical ohms, they see them (again like women) obstacles to overcome, and some amps do it better than others. A 1ohm stable monoblock amp does not care whether the load you present it with is a single 9 gajillion dollar 27,000watt handling sub, which has a single 1ohm voice coil, or four 4ohm single VC subs wired in parallel - the load on the amp will be nominally the same. If it produces say 100 into 4ohms this amp, then with decent amps typically doubling their output as load impedence halves, then your groovy amp should be whacking out 400W RMS, which you can bang into your single super sub or use to power your 4 subs with 100W each.

 

Everything in life is about cause/effect - need/payoff, so 4 subs might look great but you need to have the space. With limited space then each sub gets progessively less enclosure volume to work in and so become...well crap sounding because the box their in is too small. Looks great, sounds naff. Whereas if you can find the cash, mega 1ohm sub gets a decent sized box but costs a testicle, probably won't move as much air but plays nice and deep, but doesn't look as snazzy as 4. Do you get my point??

 

Think of yourself as a matchmaker. Choose what type of sound you want, what you can afford and buy the amp(s) and sub(s) together having a plan. Just remember, if you want more than one sub, then you can give them a sub channel each, or start to bridge/series wire the voicecoils loading up an amp channel within its capabilties. In fact you can just think of a VC as a speaker/load in it's own right. But don't get carried away - as PG said each has clearly posted ratings. If it's a stereo/2 channel amp, it will probably be able to handle a 2ohm load per channel - but itll most likely clearly state that when the channels are bridged to give a single channel of output, then the maximum load for it 'to see' may only be 4ohms!

 

Before I forget, the difference between an 8ohm sub and a 1ohm sub is like a tart and a girl just discovering the wonders of her body - on its own, ones a lot easier to get going than the other!! You figure it out!

 

All you need to know is in here. Read it and read it again. If stuck PM me/us and take it from there.

 

Regards all

 

Dr S

[Billy_boy 0]

thanks guys i think you have answered my question and many more! big thank you to DrSarty, thanks for your advice you deffinately know your stuff. speakers sounding alot better now after taking your advice..

 

Billy_boy

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

thanks guys i think you have answered my question and many more! big thank you to DrSarty, thanks for your advice you deffinately know your stuff. speakers sounding alot better now after taking your advice..

 

Billy_boy

 

No probs - glad to help. Incidently whilst my Mi16 is running incorrectly, I still installed 3 amps to run front 5 1/4 coaxials 80hz up, rear 6x9s 80hz up, dedicated mid bass sub running 2 x 6inch mini subs in box upfront and removable, ported, handbuilt bass box with 2 x Earthquake EQ15CPDS subs with their own fan cooled amp: it's awesome for a quick install.

 

You can see my priorities are all f&*ked up!

 

Later

 

Dr S

[Paintguy 0]

Nice subs!

 

But how did you find room for 2 in a ported box? Don't they need something like 3.5 cubic foot each? That'll be one hell of a big box, and perhaps a bit much for my SQ oriented taste, but I bet it booms like a good 'un

 

My own system is in a temporary state whilst I get hold of 2 more amps for the front, and somehow get my mids located in the kickwells, to equalise the path lengths a bit (which might involve moving the pedals! ).

 

I have a Phoenix Gold EQ215iX on equalizer duties, and splitting off the sub frequencies, then a PG AX406A splitting the signal for my 3 way active front end.

 

Curently this consists of a Dragster DA606, but I'm trying to get hold of a PG ZX450 for mids and tweets, and a ZX350 for the midbass. The bottom octaves are handled by a ZX350 running bridged @ 2Ohms into an Image Dynamics IDQ10 V2D2, in a sealed 0.75 cuft box.

 

Tweeters are in home made A pillar builds, mids in standard locations (for now) and the midbass are in 1" thick MDF baffles in the bottom corners of the doors.

 

(Click for full sized versions)

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Wow PG, yours is a proper system...nice one! My EQ15CPDS subs are actually 2 subs loaded isobarically (i.e. face to face & working together for those not in the know, where the external sub is wired in reverse so the two act as one speaker).

 

Using WinISD pro (free software) a single EQ15CPDS (cast pro dual spider) sub in an optimum ported box requires just over 5 cuft. So no, my box doesn't boom it's a perfectly flat response all the way down to 30hz (probably lower within the confines of the car). My box is actually 2.8cuft with a 4inch port just under 12in long, which with an isobaric set up is the same as one sub getting the optimum enclosure. (PG: some of this was clarified for public consumption - Dr S )

 

I like balanced music with actually more capability in the system than I need, aka dynamic headroom. This is not an SQ system because one speaker pod would be worth more than the car ) As for output, I like controlled, kick to the chest bass where with 15" subs you get a kind of depth that I've only heard with subs of at least that size (providing they're enclosed correctly ofcourse).

 

In fact mine are underpowered, by a Kenwood P301T, which actually is high current with built in cooling fan and terminals that take 4 gauge!!! It has a subsonic filter and I've taken a gamble and bridged it mono into two ohms (subs paralleled), and so far it's retained its poise. In fact I'm of the opinion that true sound officianados like yourself are striving for an almost unachievable goal - hence the challenge & associated enjoyment (& cost). This system (and some of my others) are mid budget WOW factor blow your socks off stuff.

 

Nice that you joined this chat. I'll make you a buddy - feel free to PM anytime.

 

Best regards

 

Dr S

[Paintguy 0]

Ah isobaric... makes sense now!

 

I must admit, I was a little surprised at (what I thought was) your choice of box, given that you clearly know your stuff. Hence my below the belt boom comment. Serves you right for simplifying, lol

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Serves you right for simplifying, lol

 

yep, I never learn!

 

Dr S