Wandering Car

[wildejon 7]

I have recently fitted some 1.9 wheels and Toyo 195 50's as well as some new shocks and sbc springs at the front (25mm lower) to a 1.6 gti.. The back is to be done too but reconditioning the beam first.

 

Since then it seems to drift sometimes when doing about 70 ish... Feels like I have almost zero control, like hitting ice (ish). Sometimes does it at lower speeds. It also pulls to the left (fairly gently) almost all the time.

 

I had the tracking checked today and the tyres are all inflated correctly.

 

I'm thinking something may have been knocked while we were hammering the shocks out and the new ones back in again...

 

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

Jon

[wildejon 7]

No ideas anyone?!

 

I REALLY want to get my car sorted so I can enjoy it again...

[tagy 1]

Hey, no help but I have the same problem, I was hoping it was the tracking as I know that is out.

 

I also have a knocking noise from both sides I am trying to pin down, I think it may be the balljoints.

[t16ryan 1]

bottom arms sounds like,,,

[wildejon 7]

Thats really the only thing I could think of too. I was going to rebuild the beam and see if that changes anything first (part of the plan anyways). It would be nice to stop spending cash on it for a week or two...

 

Is there any way of checking the joints? I gave them a wiggle about at the weekend but I couldn't really see any play.

[hengti 2]

it's a weird sounding problem - probably why you've not had many replies*

 

don't worry about (v vague) pulling left - that's relatively normal driving on the left hand side on cambered roads

 

this is no help, but it seems v strange that it should only have started doing it after relatively light mods to the front end - probably a whole mountain of work, but is it worth putting it back 'as before' to see if that restores normal service (ie. you'd then know it was a problem with the mods) - ?

 

 

no easy way of checking whether your inner lower arm bushes are knackered that i know of (unless they're obviously fooked) - maybe just replace them and see how it is.

 

could lowering it have altered susp geometry and exposed a problem that was fine at std ride height?

 

take it it's not pulling to either side under power? apparently, worn driveshafts can cause that

 

anyone else any ideas?

 

 

 

edit : * plus, you only posted it a couple of hours ago

Edited June 12, 2006 by hengti

[Baz 421]

Nope, was going to say the same as hen about inner arm bushes!! does it feel like it sets in to a corner, then will bite again?

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

try swapping the front wheels with the back . that would eliminate the new wheels. you've done a lot of stuff all at once which makes fault finding so much harder .

 

the bottom ball joint takes a lot more than a wiggle to fault find . From years of gti ownership i eventually found that if you disconnect the bottom arm you should feel a bit of resistance while moving the joint around . If its in any way sloppy or returns itself to the centre on it own just with the spring action of the rubber gaitor then its best to replace. you can wedge a big screwdriver between the arm and the subframe and a good bit of levering will show up a torn/worn bush.

 

sounds like the new wheels to me .Also iirc 1.9 wheels have a different offset which wont help either.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Possibly:

 

Dead front shocks (If really dead then wheels can bounce at high speeds making it virtually impossible to control but not seen this on a 205)

Tracking slightly out (would require constant correction to keep it straight). This could easily be caused by worn wishbone bushes...

 

Rob

[DaveK 0]

My ball joint was gone awhile back but it didnt create a small pull, made it more of an aggressive one. Also when i got the tracking done it still pulled slightly to the left, ive never driven a car that doesnt pull slightly to one direction

 

The drop links might be whats causing the knocking? Is it a rattly kind of knock or more of a thud? (if that makes any sense lol)

[Guest smokinslim]

You say you plan to recon. the rear beam - does it obviously need doing or are you eliminating problems before they start sort of thing? If it definately needs attention is it possible that the effects of having a dying/dead beam have been made more obvious by the stronger front setup?

[luggy 13]

Hi Jon

I had a similar problem on my 1.9 about 5 years ago, Car would drift from side to side at about 70 on a the motorway, nothing erratic, noticed I was driving in a straight line and was having to compensate on a straight stretch of carriageway, though it was just the road surface, got chatting to a mate of mine who then road rallied a 1.6. He asked me if if Id checked the usual, Front wishbone, droplinks, tracking, which I had replaced and got checked out, then he asked me if the had the rear beam had been reconditioned, which it hadnt. He suggested replacing the rear suspension flexible mounts, the rubber, with age deteriorates and you end up with 4 wheel steering which did sort out the problem. If that doesnt sort your problem out the the sooner you get the rear beam refurbed the better.

 

Luggy

[kyepan 291]

Hi Jon

I had a similar problem on my 1.9 about 5 years ago, Car would drift from side to side at about 70 on a the motorway, nothing erratic, noticed I was driving in a straight line and was having to compensate on a straight stretch of carriageway, though it was just the road surface, got chatting to a mate of mine who then road rallied a 1.6. He asked me if if Id checked the usual, Front wishbone, droplinks, tracking, which I had replaced and got checked out, then he asked me if the had the rear beam had been reconditioned, which it hadnt. He suggested replacing the rear suspension flexible mounts, the rubber, with age deteriorates and you end up with 4 wheel steering which did sort out the problem. If that doesnt sort your problem out the the sooner you get the rear beam refurbed the better.

 

Luggy

i also had this and changing the front lower wishbone bushes helped, also doing the rear beam bushes made the rear follow the front more solidly, rather than doing its own thing cause of the knackered ruber bushes.

 

however i have yet to solve the right hand steer on acceleration, i think its the dif spinning up one wheel.

[wildejon 7]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

I was planning on doing the rear beam anyway. 1) Because it is squeaking 2) because it is old and 3) because lowering it and disturbing things may cause problems on an old beam

 

I was also thinking that the rear beam may be failing/failed and that is is more apparent now the front end is stiffer.

 

I'm going to try that and the lower arms (which I bought today and will fit on friday) and see where it gets me.

 

As far as cornering goes, it doesn't feel hugely predictable. Sometimes is goes round them fine but others it seems to try to slide more than I would like. Feels like it is trying to understeer.

 

Sorry if I've not answered all the questions you fired back, I'm not really meant to use this at work...

[Neosophist 0]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

I was planning on doing the rear beam anyway. 1) Because it is squeaking 2) because it is old and 3) because lowering it and disturbing things may cause problems on an old beam

 

I was also thinking that the rear beam may be failing/failed and that is is more apparent now the front end is stiffer.

 

I'm going to try that and the lower arms (which I bought today and will fit on friday) and see where it gets me.

 

As far as cornering goes, it doesn't feel hugely predictable. Sometimes is goes round them fine but others it seems to try to slide more than I would like. Feels like it is trying to understeer.

 

Sorry if I've not answered all the questions you fired back, I'm not really meant to use this at work...

 

My wandering on my 205 was eventually tracked down to a worn ball joint AND a worn driveshaft.

 

Thing is the driveshaft didn't knock at all and the balljoint seemed ok-ish.

 

Hope that helps.

[wildejon 7]

Ok, cool. I've just done the O/S driveshaft so I'll check out the N/S one when I do the lower arms this weekend... Hopefully I'll finally get it all sorted

[Guest percy]

I had the same issue with mine and after checking all the obvious (lower arms, wheel allignment, rear beam) I traced it to a bent front subframe - one of the mounting points had somehow been distorted upwards causing the castor angle on the nearside to be out. When i took the old subframe off and placed it flat on the floor, it rocked quite considerably.

[wildejon 7]

Another thing I noticed and forgot to mention although it now seems like it may have been quite important, is that the outside of the front O/S tyre is markedly more worn than the inner side....

 

Does this make anyone think anything other than what they have already advised me?

 

Cheers everyone!

[pugrallye 0]

sounds v much like bent front subframe, assuming tracking is correct

[wildejon 7]

Nice....

I'd better check this asap then.

 

What would I do if it is bent?...

 

I did hit a rather large pot hole the other day...

 

Cheers

Edited June 14, 2006 by wildejon

[pugrallye 0]

that'll do it, lol if its bent you have to replace it, normally knocks the rear wishbone bush bracket out of true, forcing wishbone inwards slightly causing a camber problem on that wheel

[wildejon 7]

Would that be evident when I had the tracking done though? Or does that only do left to right measurements?...

 

How do I tell if it's bent? I mean, would it be obvious just by sight or do I need it off the car?!

 

Cheers for the help!

 

Jon

Edited June 14, 2006 by wildejon

[pugrallye 0]

well would have knocked tracking out too, but thats only adjusting the toe in/out of the front wheels, not top to bottom measurement, depends how bad its been bent really, I have a 205 here which is clearly visibly bent the bracket and its eating nsf tyres like there is no tomorrow (only on outer edge) only real way is removing it from car, maybe borrowing a replacement from a friendly sole on here who has their car in bits and comparing/measuring distances

 

is your road wheel visibly leaning inwards?

Edited June 14, 2006 by pugrallye

[wildejon 7]

Just had a look. The wheels look like they both lean in maybe half a degree but thats assuming the garage floor is flat...

 

The sub-frame looks ok to me. Looks straight from the sides and the front.

 

If the tracking is fine then maybe I didn't hit anything hard enough to bend the frame?! That would cheer me up a bit!!

[Anthony 1,000]

You normally have to smack something pretty hard to bend the subframe, and usually hit something sidewards rather than a pothole.

 

Strut top normally bends quite easily (look for tale-tale inverted dents on the bonnet and a domed strut top) but that wouldn't cause wondering in my opinion.

 

The likely culprits have all been mentioned above, so I'll not repeat