Wide Track 309 Gti Rear Beam - A Few Questions

[rutlandguy 0]

There seems to be a few on here that have modified their 205's to accept the 309 GTI beam. Does this improve the handling dramatically or by a small amount? And in what way does it improve the handling?

 

I remember all the road test reports of the late eighties rating the 309 GTI over the 205 1.9 GTI because of its better chassis balance (ie the lift off oversteer of the 205!) - does the 309 rear beam cure the 205 of the lift off oversteer feature?

 

Is there any benefit in fitting the 309 front suspention components too?

 

Can you modify a standard 205 1.9 GTI one to make it have the wider track of the 309? - or is it not as simple as fitting a longer tube between the trailing arms?

 

Do the lesser version of the 309 have the same rear beam as the 309?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Phil

[tidypug 5 2 Cars]

i have fitted a 309 beam to mine and kept the front set up standard 205 apart from using small diameter coil over shocks. I have found that my car feels alot more planted and secure when driving fast down twisty roads. I have tried to provoke a bit of LOO but to no success. If you push to hard into a corner it will just run wide even when i lift off it still stays stuck to the4 ground.

[mi16nut 0]

I can get mine to oversteer fairly easily, but generally only when I want to. The 309 beam certainly helps it to feel less nervous, but the solid rear mounts (group A) probably help more. I've got a 24mm ARB in though & it is slightly more "over-steery" with that when compared to the standard 20mm ARB.

 

You get a wider track (need the whole beam, not just the tube or tube, torsion bars & ARB), nicely filled arches, uprated torsions & ARB relatively cheaply. You will need a 309 GTi beam; lesser models will not have the same thickness torsions & ARB.

 

Mark.

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Feel free to pop over to us at 205 parts we arent far from you. www.205parts.com, there will be various cars with different suspension specs including 309 if you want a look.

[24seven 104]

Do teh arches need any work to take the 309GTi beam?

[jonD6B 0]

Do teh arches need any work to take the 309GTi beam?

 

 

Not unless the ride height is very low.

[tidypug 5 2 Cars]

you just need to trim the lip off the plastic arch trim

[24seven 104]

Not unless the ride height is very low.

 

 

how low is very low on a 205?

Edited June 7, 2006 by 24Seven

[Dino 3]

If 309 beams were meant to be on a 205 then Peugeot would have put them on the cars from new - you gotta ask yourself why they didn't.

 

I've seen several modified race car 205s and they dont use 309 beams - instead they use 205 beams with uprated torsion bars and anti roll bars.

[tagy 1]

If 309 beams were meant to be on a 205 then Peugeot would have put them on the cars from new - you gotta ask yourself why they didn't.

 

I've seen several modified race car 205s and they dont use 309 beams - instead they use 205 beams with uprated torsion bars and anti roll bars.

 

 

If 205s were meant to have uprated torsion bars peugeot would have put them on the cars from new - why didn't they

 

Personally I think 309 front setup is an improvment, but not convinced about 309 rear beam, but never tried it.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Another thing you can do is stick 8" rims on the back with the 205 beam under std arch's and trims, Looks rather good

[Alastairh 47]

I can agree, BUT.

 

For the everyday 205, (like mine) and people who want cheap improvements, you've got to agree they are good little upgrade. And i personaly think they look better aswell.

 

As for my track day car, then yeah i may look into getting some more manly bars and putting them on a 1.9 beam.

 

Alastair

[Dino 3]

If 205s were meant to have uprated torsion bars peugeot would have put them on the cars from new - why didn't they

 

Was obvious someone would say that

 

THe point I was making was to do with the wider track - if you want to uprate the 205 rear suspension then thicker tbs and arbs is partly the way to go - I mean look at Skip Browns rear beam mods

[Anthony 1,000]

Like *this* topic hasn't cropped up before

 

As I've said before, for a road-going 205 I think a 309 GTi rear beam is one of the best suspension modifications that you can do - you get better turn in, more planted through the bends, but plenty of controllable LOO on demand. I've never found anyone that I've fitted a rebuilt 309 beam to that's been anything less than happy.

 

Sure, uprated torsion bars and anti-roll bars for a 205 beam may give a better result, but at significantly higher cost. Fine for a racecar where you've a big budget and you need the best, but the majority of people on here just cannot justify that kind of cash, and having driven cars with both an uprated 205 GTi and a standard 309 GTi rear beam then I for one can't see what you're gaining for the extra on a road and occasional track car - and that's what 98% of people on here have.

 

I've asked this question before Dino and I'll ask it again - have you actually extensively driven a 205 with a 309 GTi rear beam, or are you making statements based on a guess and what a certain someone else has said? There's a good reason why I choose to fit 309 GTi rear beams to both of my 205's, simply because in my opinion that setup is perfect for the road.

 

Oh, and you might want to have a read of Adi's suspension topic regarding rear track width too for some bedtime reading

[Dino 3]

Like *this* topic hasn't cropped up before

 

As I've said before, for a road-going 205 I think a 309 GTi rear beam is one of the best suspension modifications that you can do - you get better turn in, more planted through the bends, but plenty of controllable LOO on demand. I've never found anyone that I've fitted a rebuilt 309 beam to that's been anything less than happy.

 

Sure, uprated torsion bars and anti-roll bars for a 205 beam may give a better result, but at significantly higher cost. Fine for a racecar where you've a big budget and you need the best, but the majority of people on here just cannot justify that kind of cash, and having driven cars with both an uprated 205 GTi and a standard 309 GTi rear beam then I for one can't see what you're gaining for the extra on a road and occasional track car - and that's what 98% of people on here have.

 

I've asked this question before Dino and I'll ask it again - have you actually extensively driven a 205 with a 309 GTi rear beam, or are you making statements based on a guess and what a certain someone else has said? There's a good reason why I choose to fit 309 GTi rear beams to both of my 205's, simply because in my opinion that setup is perfect for the road.

 

Oh, and you might want to have a read of Adi's suspension topic regarding rear track width too for some bedtime reading

 

 

Im no expert and I whole heartedly agree that a 309 beam is a cheap way of upgrading the rear suspension. Still begs the question of why it wasnt done in the first place

 

Ill shut up now as Im gonna get abuse thrown at me

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Still begs the question of why it wasnt done in the first place

What begs the question? The factory had access to any uprated parts for the 205 so why mess with fitting bits from another model they also produce? If they didn't have access they had the funds to get them built to the spec they wanted. Case closed imo.

 

When I first looked at fitting a 309 beam to my 205GTi 10 years ago one well know tuner told me it wouldn't fit. Now there is a car prepared by them (well, emblasened with their stickers) that competes at Harewood with one fitted (by them afaik). Maybe I caused them to try it.

 

Graham.

[Butler 0]

As I've said before, for a road-going 205 I think a 309 GTi rear beam is one of the best suspension modifications that you can do - you get better turn in, more planted through the bends, but plenty of controllable LOO on demand. I've never found anyone that I've fitted a rebuilt 309 beam to that's been anything less than happy.

 

 

Totally correct and run a 309 beam also.

[Ryan 99]

Still begs the question of why it wasnt done in the first place

 

Why didn't they fit an mi16 engine, or bigger brakes, or a group-n exhaust, or coilovers...

 

Just because peugeot didn't do it doesn't make it wrong.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

This is what makes every one different, No way in the world would I fit a 309 beam, It's not for me but other do and like it. But as for turn in the 25mm front ARB and 29 rear ARB is unbeatable trust me

[niklas 1]

Uprated 205 beam for racing, whatever for daily driving

[kyunis 0]

you just need to trim the lip off the plastic arch trim

 

 

Hi. how easy is it to fit the 309 rear beam to the 1.9 205? is it similiar fittings or drilling of new holes? also does it stick the wheels out a little ? Thanks

Edited August 23, 2006 by kyunis

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

this has been covered MANY times before, do a search .

 

it widens the track about 25mm per side.

[smckeown 1]

I'm one of the very few that have a seriously uprated 309 rear beam (25mm TBs and 27mm ARB). I upgeaded from the uprated 205 rear beam (23mm TBs and 25mm ARB). I went for the classic wide track proven benefits. I haven't driven the car myself yet on track (hopefully i na few weeks) but an ex-stock hatch racing driver has and it handles superb i'm told.

 

Other than wanting to fit wide rims at the back, I see no downside

 

Sean

[niklas 1]

I'm one of the very few that have a seriously uprated 309 rear beam (25mm TBs and 27mm ARB). I upgeaded from the uprated 205 rear beam (23mm TBs and 25mm ARB). I went for the classic wide track proven benefits. I haven't driven the car myself yet on track (hopefully i na few weeks) but an ex-stock hatch racing driver has and it handles superb i'm told.

 

Other than wanting to fit wide rims at the back, I see no downside

 

Sean

 

The wider track decreases the amount and speed of weight transfer by n, the thicker bars increase the amount of weight transfer by n^4.

So you have increased the weight transfer by alot but decreased the speed of it, leaving you with a more stable but a lot rollstiffer rear end.

Which sounds like a good choice

[Rally Slag 0]

just quick question after reading all this, if i had a 309 beam on my 205, would it handle better with 205 or 309 front suspension sets ups? eg: which front suspension would you use if you ran a 309 rear beam to get rid of most of the LOO ( i know its impossible to completly rid it but which would be better)