216bhp Is Way Too Much For My Std Brakes...need Some Advice

[jonah 1]

Why not just keep the standard brakes and fit hotter pads? Mintex 1155 / 1166 or Pagid Blue / Gray etc.?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Thats funny because mine doesn't.

Maybe if you leave the massive toe-out that you get from fitting the bits and not adjusting the tracking back to normal.

 

 

You trying to imply I dont do things properly??? This is exactly the reason I stopped visiting the forum. Ill work it out for myself.

[Ahl 4]

You trying to imply I dont do things properly??? This is exactly the reason I stopped visiting the forum. Ill work it out for myself.

Don't start that nonsense. You stated the 309 setup was god awful and I stated with a wink that mine was fine, cos' it is and I don't understand how you can be so over the top about it.

 

The only way I can imagine it being as bad as you describe is if you don't set the tracking, and no im not implying that you'd be stupid enough to do that.

[Butler 0]

My 309 setup is acceptable as well, one track day per front tyres is enough to even the wear and I do a lot of motorway miles. But I guess its down to opinion.

 

Anyways.....

 

The brakes. Whats actually wrong with them? Fade? Overheating? Not enough power? Are they acceptable when you first use them?

All of the above?

 

The first two can be resolved with the pads. Not enough power, then obviously bigger discs and/or calipers are required. I thought Wilwood did an upgrade for the 1.6 hubs.

[tom_m 0]

to be fair i don't think the wink helped your post ahl. it makes the tone of your post flippant, and if you meant it like that then adam is justified in his reaction.

 

back on topic (sort of) i found 309 wishbones and standard rear beam did increase tramlining, but wasn't so bad that i couldn't live with it; i haven't tried the full 309 set-up

 

at the end of the day if the man wants a solution for 1600 hubs then thats what he wants. its his car and his choice

[Anthony 1,000]

What exactly is it about the 1600 front hubs that mean the GTi6 calipers wont fit??? I am being dumb here but as I say, brakes arent my strong point as I feel there is no need for an upgrade until you get to this sort of power figure.

 

Please remember chaps that machining isnt a problem.

The problem is that the hubs are different offsets to each other, hence the difference in track width at the front, but the caliper mount is the same. If you compare a 1.6 and 1.9 brake disk you can see this difference quite easily. Thus if you try and fit say GTi-6 brakes (equally 306 S16/XSi or 307), the disk will be be offset from the caliper and won't line up.

 

If you want to maintain the wider front track without using either 309 front setup or using 1.9 hubs and spacers, then you've basically got four options that I can see:

1. Retain your existing 247mm 1.6 disks and run better pads
   
2. Run one of the few "off the shelf" kits for the 1.6 hubs - Wilwood do a 4-pot setup with 285mm disks
   
3. Run brakes that are meant for a 1.9 hub and machine up a spacer to move the caliper closer to the wheel
   
4. Find a suitable "off the shelf" larger brake disk with 1.6 offsets and run a caliper/yoke to match
   

[Dino 3]

Adam I've got a couple of 5mm spacers spare if you want them? Not sure if 5 mm is too much or not enough but the offer is there if you are interested mate

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Adam I've got a couple of 5mm spacers spare if you want them? Not sure if 5 mm is too much or not enough but the offer is there if you are interested mate

 

Thankyou Dino.

 

I might have to try and find a solution myself. Surely I could use any caliper then research and locate a set of discs with a suitable offset to fit?

 

Maxi

[888rmb 6]

One of my mates runs 1.6 hubs with 1600 callipers and GTi-6 discs using a machined spacer to get the discs to the right offset. I can find out how thick the spacer is if you like. I assume it would just be the difference in the offset between the 2 different types of hubs. (1/2"??)

The brakes are very effective btw and it means you don't have to use the heavier GTi6 callipers.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The 309 fron tis fine, Had this on mine and had no problems at all even with 16£ wheels and 45 Section tyres, Set up right it will be fine.

Brakes thou you can get anything to fit, Just get some bells made up for some universal (as such disc's) then the offset etc is your choice.

Or find some old Gp 'A' hubs

[Kev-G 1]

I've got a set of wilwoods + 300mm+ discs to fit 1.6 hubs if you are interested.

 

If you want to keep your 1.6 hubs and run off the shelf parts then you need to get measuring....283mm calipers for a 406 will be cheap and will fit the hubs....You will then need to find 283mm discs (or thereabouts) with the correct offset....In reality anything can be made to fit....

 

Thnking about it....You may actually get away with mounting the caliper (406 283mm) on the front rather than the rear of the hub + using a std. 283mm disc....

 

Brembos seriously limit your wheel choice, but fit straight onto 1.9 hubs.

 

Failing that, convert to 309 front-end....As said, I've never had a problem with this on the road.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Friend had a Dolomite Sprint with twin front calipers (opposing each other), dunno if this is possible with the 205 hubs (although I guess anything is possible with a little imagination and talent). Just thought that I would mention it while it was in my head

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I've got a set of wilwoods + 300mm+ discs to fit 1.6 hubs if you are interested.

 

If you want to keep your 1.6 hubs and run off the shelf parts then you need to get measuring....283mm calipers for a 406 will be cheap and will fit the hubs....You will then need to find 283mm discs (or thereabouts) with the correct offset....In reality anything can be made to fit....

 

Thnking about it....You may actually get away with mounting the caliper (406 283mm) on the front rather than the rear of the hub + using a std. 283mm disc....

 

Brembos seriously limit your wheel choice, but fit straight onto 1.9 hubs.

 

Failing that, convert to 309 front-end....As said, I've never had a problem with this on the road.

 

Sound straight to the point advice speaking from experience! Thankyou, much appreciated kev. What sort of money are you looking for the brake setup you have??

 

Maxi

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

For brakes the 309 and 205 1.9 stuff is the same so if its just a brake upgrade you want then maybe just convert to 205 1.9 hubs/shafts?

 

I find the front 309 setup a bit nervous on most roads too and after driving other cars have to acclimatise to it; it only stops becoming an issue on tracks which tend to be smooth and less cambered.

[Craigb 2]

I find the front 309 setup a bit nervous on most roads too and after driving other cars have to acclimatise to it; it only stops becoming an issue on tracks which tend to be smooth and less cambered.

 

That's exactly what i thought , and so changed back to a 205 set up

[Kev-G 1]

maxi,

 

JERAM should have pm'd you about the Wilwoods.

 

A little investigation turns up some interesting possiblities which MAY fit the 1.6 hubs:

 

FYI 1.6 discs are 247 dia. x 20.5 thick; with a height of 44mm

 

How abouts:

 

283 x 26; 48

330 x 30; 48

281 x 26; 44

285 x 28; 44

310 x 32; 44

 

I reckon that the last 3 discs will bolt up approx. correctly with the caliper mount....Actually getting the caliper to fit maybe another matter....

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

maxi,

 

JERAM should have pm'd you about the Wilwoods.

 

A little investigation turns up some interesting possiblities which MAY fit the 1.6 hubs:

 

FYI 1.6 discs are 247 dia. x 20.5 thick; with a height of 44mm

 

How abouts:

 

283 x 26; 48

330 x 30; 48

281 x 26; 44

285 x 28; 44

310 x 32; 44

 

I reckon that the last 3 discs will bolt up approx. correctly with the caliper mount....Actually getting the caliper to fit maybe another matter....

 

 

Thankyou very much Kev, time for some further investigation I think..... I didnt recieve any PM's, there is now space in my inbox though.

 

Maxi

[Guest BrainFluid]

Any update on this Maxi? what did you do in the end?

[Michel_De_Lattre 0]

I am still in doubt of fitting the 309 front suspension on my 205. The reason why is for the handling, but I want better brakes... which is a bit difficult on the 1.6 front as mentionned by about everybody

But I wouldn't go as far as the AP, Brembo, ... calipers. A bit difficult with the Belgian Mott (they are being a pain in the a.. improving is forbidden )

So some more interest from the other side of the canal on how you solved this

[johnrobertgordon 0]

how about,

 

1.6 hubs

drilled and groved disks for improved cooling (1.6 items are penuts)

Pagid blues (expensive but omg!)

406 master cylinder (non abs?)

[Ahl 4]

Or just get the 266mm brakes from certain 306s and fit them upgraded pads (some are 1.6 fitment, some are 1.9 fitment).

 

Im assuming that you mean that changing to AP 4-pots or something wouldn't be allowed, but bigger brakes that looked standard would be ok!

[Michel_De_Lattre 0]

A big thanks for the hint. Never heard that there are 306 brakes which would work on 1.6 hubs, but I am sure a search will help me out

Off we go.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I am still in doubt of fitting the 309 front suspension on my 205. The reason why is for the handling, but I want better brakes... which is a bit difficult on the 1.6 front as mentionned by about everybody

But I wouldn't go as far as the AP, Brembo, ... calipers. A bit difficult with the Belgian Mott (they are being a pain in the a.. improving is forbidden )

So some more interest from the other side of the canal on how you solved this

 

If you don't want a 309 setup, why not just fit 205 1.9 hubs and shafts as the hubs are the same 205/309/306?

[Michel_De_Lattre 0]

The 1.6 front setup gives a wider track and I loved this wider track. This setup wasn't nervous at all nor did I have any problems with tramlining.