Low Power And Strange Noise

[EnglishRob 0]

Hi folks,

 

My 205 has developed a bit of a worrying problem. Over the past couple of weeks I've been having performance issues with the car. It normally seems okay but I have noticed from time to time the engine was appearing to loose power suddenly as if it wasn't firing on all cylinders.

 

Anyway, on the way home this evening the car started making a worrying noise and there was hardly any power whatsoever.

 

The sound is a kind of a cross between pinking and the sort of noise a diesel engine makes. The pinking noise gets louder when I put my foot down on the accelerator. The thing that got me though is that it doesn't make a noise when the car is in neutral and I press down on the accelerator, it only seems to be happening when I push the car over about 1500rpm when it's in gear.

 

When the engine is sat idle it is running at 1500rpm rather than what I was usually running at about 1000rpm.

 

I did take it over for Pug_sport to have a look and it looked as though the oil level was low, although the engine had been running for about 45 mins previous to him checking. I haven't checked when it's cool.

 

Has anyone else had this sort of thing?

 

Rob

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

blown manifold gasket.

[EnglishRob 0]

blown manifold gasket.

 

Inlet Manifold? or Exhaust Manifold?

 

I had a inlet manifold gasket problem on my old 1.6 and I don't recall having that noise.

 

Rob

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

blown manifold gasket.

 

exhaust

 

 

Inlet Manifold? or Exhaust Manifold?

 

I had a inlet manifold gasket problem on my old 1.6 and I don't recall having that noise.

 

Rob

 

thats because its the exhaust.

 

also check for cracks in the manifold and the manifold=front pipe union. any leaks at the head/manifold or a crack usually sounds like a ticking/rattly top end .

[EnglishRob 0]

Ok, I'll take a look, or should I say I'll ask Pug_sport to have a look for me as he's a bit more used to fixing cars for me, and it was him I got this 205 off.

 

I'm hoping it's just that. I've only had the car for about 2 months and I can't afford anything big like another engine (I started thinking the worst earlier like valves going pop or something else on the engine going wrong).

 

Rob

[smckeown 1]

always worth checking the cylinder compression for general health. Can't see how an exhaust manifold gastett is going to lose the sort of power you are referring to under load. What';s the state of the electrical side, when did it last have a full service, new coil/leads/plugs etc.

[simonb 0]

A slipped cam belt maybe?

[newdean0 0]

I'd put money on a blowing exhaust as well, sounds like it's somewhere near the engine if it's a harsh tapping noise, also listen for a popping noise when backing off the gas. If you're still not sure, start the car from cold and put your hand around the manifold joints to feel for escaping exhaust gasses but you don't get long before it's hot enough to burn.

 

As for being down on power, I've noticed a big drop in power whenever the exaust starts blowing badly. If you can't find a leak at the manifold end it could be anywhere before the first box as the noise is fairly similar.

[d-9 0]

Depends how much power its lost, if its a bit then its due to the exhaust leak, if its a lot then its probably ignition components. One of mine left me at the side of the motorway a few times, you'd put your foot down and nothing would happen at all. Changing the dizzy cap, rotor arm, HT leads, plugs and ignitionamp sorted it thou, £50 well spent!

[ada205 2]

I've had more exhaust blows than hot dinners, and the noise you describe certainly sounds like a blow. If it's the manifold, I'd put money on there being a crack on number 4 or between 3 and 4. It's nearly always here due to this side being at the end of the water run, therefore the the blocks hottest on this side. Some one might know better, but think i recall hearing some-where Peugeot had to re-enforced this area of the manifold after constant problems with cracks on earlier cars.

 

If it's an exhaust blow, it'll sound louder under strain, espeically on hills and when very cold, as when hot the metal expands and reduces the size of the crack. I had a real bad blow due to a cracked manifold that made the car sound like a diesel at best, and like a helicopter on a steep hill. It turned heads in the worse possible way! Have to say though, i've never had servere power loss due to a blow, and neither was my idle speed affected. It drank petrol though.

[steve@cornwall 100]

but think i recall hearing some-where Peugeot had to re-enforced this area of the manifold after constant problems with cracks on earlier cars.

 

Took a manifold off a "c"plate car I broke about 7 years ago. It has two heavy ribs running across the manifold by cyl 3/4. It's now on the third car of mine and going strong. Was going to ask if anybody knew it's origin so,thanks, Question answered I think

[EnglishRob 0]

always worth checking the cylinder compression for general health. Can't see how an exhaust manifold gastett is going to lose the sort of power you are referring to under load. What';s the state of the electrical side, when did it last have a full service, new coil/leads/plugs etc.

 

Hmm, I'm not too sure when it's had its last proper service. IIRC the coil was changed when the engine was changed (and cam belt done). I think it was around Nov/Dec 2005. It was done by Pug_sport with me generally standing around getting cold in the snow!

 

I've had more exhaust blows than hot dinners, and the noise you describe certainly sounds like a blow. If it's the manifold, I'd put money on there being a crack on number 4 or between 3 and 4. It's nearly always here due to this side being at the end of the water run, therefore the the blocks hottest on this side. Some one might know better, but think i recall hearing some-where Peugeot had to re-enforced this area of the manifold after constant problems with cracks on earlier cars.

 

If it's an exhaust blow, it'll sound louder under strain, espeically on hills and when very cold, as when hot the metal expands and reduces the size of the crack. I had a real bad blow due to a cracked manifold that made the car sound like a diesel at best, and like a helicopter on a steep hill. It turned heads in the worse possible way! Have to say though, i've never had servere power loss due to a blow, and neither was my idle speed affected. It drank petrol though.

 

I did find it was louder when going up hill. I had to put my foot down lots more to get up the hill. Not sure if any of you guys have heard of Telegraph Hill? It's just off the A38 near Exeter. It's a pretty steep hill, normally I can hapilly cruse up there in 5th gear at about 70. Yesterday evening, I was struggling to get up there in 3rd gear. I think I managed to do about 35-40 up there with the car running at about 2500 to 3000rpm. At one point I had to change down to second gear and the noise was unbearable.

 

I can't say I've noticed the noise when the car is sat still in neutral though. It only seems to happen when the car is in gear.

 

I'm not sure if the manifold is the original one, or what was off Pug_sport's old B-reg Phase 1 205.

 

I have to get to work in a minute (on the bus ) but I'll try and feel for blowing when I get home from work this evening.

 

Rob

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

A small blow shouldnt cause them issues with power, it could be a major blow somewhere but that would be apparent even at idle. Id strongly suggest first finding the leak as Im 99% it will be leaking then get it set up properly. As said a compression test may be worthwhile just to rule out other issues.

[Pug_sport 0]

Hello ppl

Englishrobs description is almost right!!!!!

 

There is no apperent noise when in neutral or when you rev the car, the only time you get the noise is when your driving it sounds like a piston is hitting a valve (cam belt slipped).

 

If you put the car into gear and slip the clutch and bring the revs up you can hear it knocking and rattling. When I first put the engine in it had a major leak on the exhaust because the manifold was cracked and the downpipe was split but it still ran ok just very noisey.

 

It had a full service in december leads, plugs, oil, oil filter, coil, dis cap, rotor arm, cam belt and was timed up. It also has a new exhaust down pipe, centre box and back box which was fitted in december/janurary, the manifold was off of my old car and from my brief look at the car last night it doesn't appear to be cracked or leaking.

 

By power loss he means serious power loss (my diesel courier van is quicker at the moment)

 

[EnglishRob 0]

There is no apperent noise when in neutral or when you rev the car, the only time you get the noise is when your driving it sounds like a piston is hitting a valve (cam belt slipped).

 

If you put the car into gear and slip the clutch and bring the revs up you can hear it knocking and rattling.

 

Just a thought (which no doubt I'm completely wrong as I aint got a clue about the inner working of cars), but surely if the engine was running in neutral, the valves and cam would still be moving (albeit slower) or if the engine was revved in neutral, the same valves and cams would still be moving?

 

Just a thought.

 

Rob

[ada205 2]

God it's a serious love/hate affair with the 205!

Just a thought (which no doubt I'm completely wrong as I aint got a clue about the inner working of cars), but surely if the engine was running in neutral, the valves and cam would still be moving (albeit slower) or if the engine was revved in neutral, the same valves and cams would still be moving?

Think Rob's right, surely if timing belt had slipped and for example, piston was meeting valves, the noise's would be present when engine is running no matter what conditions.

 

If it's as loud as you say, it has to be a bad blow, as god knows whats goin on if it's seriously loud and it's metal meeting metal! Can you tell if the noise is definatly coming from the top of the engine? Does the engine start ok, and is there any smoke when hot? Whats the oil pressure like and does the oil light go off quickly on start up? Maybe bottom ends knocking? If so, probably main bearings if noise present under load.

 

Hopefully not this serious. Sounds like two problems at once, one a blow, and the other electrical. Both common on the gti, and if the manifold is as old as it sounds, i'd definatly check and then double check for cracks,especially if it's of a real early car.

 

As for the intermitant loss of power before the noise's, with the list Pug_sport say's has been replaced, it's gotta be worth trying an ignition amp, then thats virtually everything electrical changed in the last few months. Other electrics worth a try are ignition switch and dizzy (of which I'm currently having no end of trouble with and will be asking for help soon!)

 

Smckeown's got a point to, always worth checking compression, as cant believe you'd lose massive power from a blow, and it's alway a good way of checking your engines general health. I've drivin one of my cars a short distance from car park to work shop with no exhaust what so ever, just the manifold. Felt and ran ok, though very loud, and with the odd flame spitting under the car!

 

Hope you solve it soon mate.

[EnglishRob 0]

I've just had another look at the car.

 

When I started it first time round, it took 2 or 3 turns from the starter for it to start. It sounded a bit like it does when the battery is flat. It did start though.

 

When the car was idle I put my hand round the back over the engine block where the manifold goes in. It just felt like there was a slight gentle cold blowing on my hand, but I guess that could have been the breeze.

 

I then tried revving the engine, it didn't make the loud metalic noise like it was when it was in gear. The engine did sound like it was making a slight pinking type of noise, not exactly like pinking but similar.

 

I checked the oil before starting the car, it is low, under the minimum level low which I'm a bit worried about. There seems to be an oil leak on the pipe that comes out of the top of the engine near where the cambelt cover is.

 

I also noticed, on the inlet manifold, isn't there supposed to be a screw where they oil filler clips on to?

 

I took a couple of pictures of the engine...

 

The inlet manifold, circled where I was sure there should be a screw

 

and the pipe which appears to be leaking.

 

Rob

[smckeown 1]

neithor of those seem to be much of an issue, the breather hose is unlikely to be the source of any oil leak. if you felt a a leaky manifold it would be more prominant than th ewind. A pievce if tissue paper is a good ideal dont forget to check underneath. You won't hear pinking unless the car is under load i dont believe.

 

Man that engine bay looks tired

 

If you cant do it yourself i'd get the timing and compression checkout out at a reputable garage

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

get a bolt in the hole otherwise you'lle have an air leak on the intake which would contribute to bad running. Has the dizzy assembly slipped at all? Just a thought but if its come loose the ignition will be completely out, also it would actually advance if it was loose so major pinking would be likely.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Richie-Van-GTi