Bigger Door Speakers (in A 205)

[Guest Nathanlgd]

I'm currently upgrading my sound system in my 205 GTi, I've been simply running after market door speakers (infinite kappas) and 6X9's (Vibe SR69) along with a decent Alpine head unit for a while but now I'm wanting a little more

Now don't get my wrong, I'm not wanting to fill my boot with 4, 15 inch subs and s*it loads of batterys and amps so that the whole car vibrates and sounds like its full of angry bees on steroids... I listen to a big range of music so its important that I keep things "steady".

I've decided to lose the 6X9's and run a sub, this means that I need a little more from the door speakers and my partialy knackered 4 inch items aren't upto the job. So the best option is to fit something a little bigger - 5 inch components but, as you'll all know, these won't just fit in nicely like the 4 inch speakers. I know there are various ways to fit bigger door speakers but I was just wondering what would be the easiest and if anyone on here has done such a thing? pics would be great as well.

Cheers

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

C_W has 6x9's in his doors, there was a thread on this about 4 years ago with pics.

[aeinstein 0]

the chap who had my 205 before me put 6x9s in the front doors, seemingly to good effect,but now the car has big holes where they were cos he took them out and i've never replaced them.

 

my advice would be to attempt to hide them behind the door card, and try to be neat when cutting the metal.

 

neither of these things were done on mine and i've had to replace the door cards, and can't put the original speakers back in.

 

could a decent set of components work just as well? (with a sensibly placed tweeter and the 4" in its own hole)

 

i also saw someone who had filled the glovebox and place under steering column with mdf and put 5's in there but it looked a bit cack imho

Edited March 26, 2006 by aeinstein

[Super Josh 4]

I thought the standard speaker aperture was 130cm, so that would imply you can get something a shade of 5"s in there. As long as you filter off all the sub bass frequencies and leave those to the sub it should sound great.

 

 

Josh

[Paintguy 0]

I thought the standard speaker aperture was 130cm,

The bloomin' doors aren't that big!!

 

 

Assuming you meant 130mm then that's what I thought too, so a 5" or 5¼" should go in fairly easily.

 

For such a small car though, there's loads of room in the front end of the door for bigger speakers. I had some 6" ones in my last pug, mounted on a baffle behind the original grille. Or you could build some pods at the bottom of the door for 6", or maybe even 8". See here for an idea of what I mean.

 

Oh, and leave the 6x9's to the "lovin' it large" crew. The oval shaped cones do nothing for sound quality, or off-axis distortion.

[tidypug 5 2 Cars]

Those door pods are what i've got in my pug, i think they look pretty good, you do have to chop the door cards to get them to fit.

[Ahl 4]

I had some 6" ones in my last pug, mounted on a baffle behind the original grille.

 

That sounds like a good plan paintguy. Do you have any pics or details? Thickness of the baffe for example.

[Paintguy 0]

Do you have any pics or details?

lol, I'm talking back in the days before digital cameras

 

I'll try and use my pitiful Paint skills to do you some sort of diagram - as long as you promise not to laugh!!

[Ahl 4]

Its all good, thanks!

An easy way to fit bigger speakers without cutting and also keeping it original looking would be nice.

[Paintguy 0]

Sorry for the delay, I had to prepare the little 'uns evening meal. Hmmm... Farleys Rusk

 

 

Anyway, first pic shows door itself:

 

 

I cut the metal out roughly to the red line, basically as big as I could get it, whilst still retaining the clips and screw holes for the original grille. Blue line shows approx area of MDF baffle. I think I used 12mm, but it all depends on the depth of your speakers really. I was using some with a shallow mounting depth, so got away with fairly thick stuff.

 

 

This amazing quality Autocad drawing gives a rough idea how it all went together. Blue is the metal of the door, grey is MDF baffle, black is speaker (just in case you didn't recognise it!) As you can see, the metalwork shrouds the speaker a little, but the MDF baffle prevents it from touching.

 

What I forgot to put on there is something to seal between the door and MDF, essential to make sure the sound actually comes out of the door. I used a bit of foam, but silicone sealer etc would do the job.

 

It was a bit tricky (ok then, a lot tricky) to get it all inside the door. I mounted the speaker to the baffle first, then somehow managed to squeeze it in to position, then screwed the MDF to the door.

 

Hope that all make sense, and good luck!

[Paintguy 0]

Those door pods are what i've got in my pug, i think they look pretty good, you do have to chop the door cards to get them to fit.

Home brew or bought?

 

When you say you don't have to chop the door panels, do you mean you haven't opened the back so they can vent into the doors? I'd say there was very limited space inside pods like that, and the speakers won't give anywhere near their best if they haven't got enough room to 'breath'.

 

On my JL components (XR 653 CS), the 4" mid alone needs at least 2.3litres of air behind it. The 6" Midbass needs around a cubic foot (28 litres!) to give its best.

[tidypug 5 2 Cars]

i bought them from Wiggs of the forum a couple of years ago.

sorry mate but i think you've misread what i put, i have had to cut both the door card and door panel as the speakers are too deep.

[Paintguy 0]

sorry mate but i think you've misread what i put,

Yes I did. I read it as "don't have to chop the door panels", Sorry.

 

I guess I'd better stop posting after downing so much red wine

[tom_m 0]

Sorry for the delay, I had to prepare the little 'uns evening meal. Hmmm... Farleys Rusk

...

 

i did a similar thing on my old one, but i replaced the OE cover with an MDF baffle that i mounted the speaker to and used the speakers own grill over that. it stuck out quite a way, but cleared the dash... just i never did get round to finding something to seal the builds to the door tho... maybe when I get my arse in gear and fit them the the J-reg i'll find something suitable.

 

after that example tho, some evolution may be in order and sod paying £180 quid for door builds!

[Edd-XS 0]

...or you could follow my guide on the main website on how to make fibreglass door pods? can fit a 17cm speaker in, retaining the original window winders (if you have them), they sound awesome, dont f*** up the original doorcard or door and only cost about £50 tops!

go on, get mucky u know you want to!

Edd

[Paintguy 0]

Couldn't quite be described as 'stealth' though, could they?!

 

Pods/builds are definately the way to go, and I've made many sets, but I was just describing one particular method I used that might help those wanting better sounds, without altering the looks of the interior

[Edd-XS 0]

fair does when covered in black carpet they look pretty tidy though too! just an option.

Edd

[Paintguy 0]

Of course

 

And if I ever manage to win any of the items I'm bidding for on Ebay, there'll be a set of builds appearing in my doors soon. I've got the components, just need a better amp, sub, etc.....

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

i've always been wondering about those door pods...

 

how much volume/space is required for a speaker to perform the best?

 

with the speakers mounted in standard positions, they get to use the volume of the door,

while if it they're in door pods, they only get so much less of volume/space...

 

ok is the point just to have them enclosed (or whatever the term is)?

[Paintguy 0]

I'll not get too technical at first, but a speaker (or to use the correct term - driver) is only as good as the mounting or enclosure it's used with. For subwoofers, enclosure type & size is essential for best performance, but smaller drivers used for midbass/midrange are usually more tolerant.

 

They still need room to breathe however, and most are designed to have the airspace of a door cavity or similar behind them. As I mention above, the 6" driver I have requires an enclosue of at least 28 litres to perform at its best.

 

The 'best size' is worked out from a set of parameters that each speaker has (Theile-Small Parameters) that describe how they perform in an enclosure, but without going too far into it, as the driver is working in a particular air space it will compress & expand that air as it moves back and forth. If the airspace is too small, the driver won't be able to reach full extension (move back and forth to it's limits) before the pressure inside the space gets too much, and stops it.

 

Certain drivers (mainly large woofers or subwoofers) are actually designed to make use of the above phenomenon (called Air Suspension) as the driver itself is fairly 'floppy' and relies on the air pressure to control its movement. Such set-ups usually give the most accurate (i.e. flat) response, and are so more popular with those looking for sound quality rather than quantity.

 

Forcing a driver not designed in such a way (like your average component sets woofer) to work in such a way will usually reduce its low end performance however. Put simply, it can't move enough to produce decent amounts of bass, before it is 'strangled' by the air pressure in the enclosure. It's the pistonic movement of a driver that produces the bass frequencies, so stopping or restricting this movement basically kills their bass.

 

So ignoring all that waffle, put this kind of speaker in as big an airspace as you can. By all means make 'pods' for them, which can allow you to use a larger than factory driver, or angle them for better sound, but open up the back and vent them into the doors for best performance