Cleaning Up Mi16 Head

[eob 7]

With the block off being welded, I'm left with my Mi16 head to clean up. I've got most of the old gasket residue off with the usual combination of patience and elbow grease. However, looking at the coked up valves, I'm tempted to pull them and clean the whole lot up when the head is off.

 

Sending it to QEP is out of the question as I'm a million miles away, but how difficult is it to take one of these heads apart and fix it up? Stick some valve pullers on the valves and voila?

[Dj_mini 7]

To clean the head up a treat sneak it in the dishwasher when the misses isnt home!

[Banjo 1]

Read a Haynes joke book, you'll need a valve compressor and make sure everything goes back in the same places, valves will needed lapping in after. Try a search maybe

Ben

Edited March 25, 2006 by Banjo

[eob 7]

I'll read up on it sometime tonight. I reckon the head is going to need resurfacing [jebus pryst these Mi16's don't half start racking up the bills do they ] due to a slightly scored face. I presume a standard 205 Haynes Jokebook is going to tell me everything I need to know even though the Mi isn't featured?

[petert 554]

valves will needed lapping in after.

 

you're joking, surely. You'll need a spring compressor with a plastic guard, so you don't scratch the lifter bores. Once disassembled, get it hot tanked, guides checked (and repaired if necessary, seats cut and valves refaced. Seat cutting is so accurate these days, you won't need to lap anything. Recheck spring pressures after the new installed spring heights have been measured, shim as required, then reassemble.

 

Surely someone in Ireland does headjobs?

Edited March 27, 2006 by petert

[eob 7]

Ok, I have just a few questions... Anytime I ever post anything on this [or any other] car related forum regarding getting something done with an engine I'm told [rightly or wrongly] to get x, y, z done.

 

Now, this might sound nuts, but if you add together all the various forum-related 'must have' maintenance/remanufacturing work done on your head/engine it runs into, quite literally, thousands upon thousands of /£ of work done. At the moment, I've been told I need ground bores, new rings, all new gaskets, new bearings [despite the ones in the engine already being new], new waterpump, new oil pump, head faced, block faced, head dis-assembled and hot tanked, valves removed and reground, valves lapped, engine remapped... you name it.

 

It might sound crazy, but, should I just throw my Mi16 in a skip/on Ebay, cut my losses, and buy a GTi6 engine instead?

[petert 554]

It might sound crazy, but, should I just throw my Mi16 in a skip/on Ebay, cut my losses, and buy a GTi6 engine instead?

 

if x+y+z is > than g, then yes. But how will know what condition it's in?

Edited March 27, 2006 by petert

[Banjo 1]

I ment as a cheap fix and so he could get it skimmed, not everyone has thousands to throw at an engine as he's just said.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Ok, I have just a few questions... Anytime I ever post anything on this [or any other] car related forum regarding getting something done with an engine I'm told [rightly or wrongly] to get x, y, z done.

 

Now, this might sound nuts, but if you add together all the various forum-related 'must have' maintenance/remanufacturing work done on your head/engine it runs into, quite literally, thousands upon thousands of /£ of work done. At the moment, I've been told I need ground bores, new rings, all new gaskets, new bearings [despite the ones in the engine already being new], new waterpump, new oil pump, head faced, block faced, head dis-assembled and hot tanked, valves removed and reground, valves lapped, engine remapped... you name it.

 

It might sound crazy, but, should I just throw my Mi16 in a skip/on Ebay, cut my losses, and buy a GTi6 engine instead?

 

The choice is yours, but don't forget that any used engine will have a history.

 

At least by spending a few quid (engine building is'nt cheap) on the lump itself, you will know that it should last for a while. Last thing you want is to chuck the engine in only for it to go bang 1000 miles down the road.

 

I may be wrong, but I get the impression you've underestimated the cost of rebuilding an engine.

[eob 7]

Let me give you an example...

 

I dropped the engine off to be welded [just welded..] and I sat there while they took it apart infront of me to 'make it lighter to fit on the welding jig'. Lots of whistling through teeth later.. it'll need honed liners, bearings, this, that, the other etc.

 

Now, I've been around engines, the engine itself was pulled from a totalled original Dimma which had the TT removed and a spangly refurbed Mi16 slotted in. The bearings are absolutely perfect, as are the rings, as far as I can tell.

 

Split the lot and sell it on Ebay, find a GTi6 will decent compression and away we go?

[petert 554]

Hang on a minute, I gave the basic advice for reco'ing a head, that should cost no more than AUD$400.

 

ie

 

- hot tanking - it costs me $30 to get a head cleaned, surely a figure typical in any western country. What's your time worth? I certainly couldn't be bothered cleaning up a head for that.

 

- guides - what's the point of spending AUS$500 on gaskets, bearings and head bolts if the guides are stuffed? They may not be, but why not fix them if they're worn? They're only AUS$8 each, fitted. They're the starting point on any head work. If they're worn, there's no point in going any further. They valve will never be concentric to the seat.

 

I could go on, but if you're just after a cheap and nasty fix, there isn't one for an Mi16, or a GTi6.

[eob 7]

I'm not trying to bite the hand that feeds me here, but doing a rough calculation on everything that head/engine needs... it comes to about 1,500.

 

I know I'm supposed to throw money at this til it works but 1,500, that's what, x4 GTi6 engines? It's just theory people.

[Rom 0]

I think when rebuilding engines. People dont account for a lot of stuff. Imho, there is no point changing say just rings. Or just shells etc. If its apart, rebuild it. It may cost more now, but it will last a lot longer.

Unless u have proof an engine has been recently rebuilt, i wouldnt put a second hand engine in at all.

Ofc, there are limits to what is needed to be done. But really, why not use new pumps if its apart anyway ? I mean if the pump fails 2k down the line. It could cost ur whole engine,or atleast the time/money to partially strip and replace.

If i couldnt afford to rebuild an engine, i wouldnt put one in. If i HAD to, id take my chances as it is. As once its apart, u realise the can of worms u have opened. As in an ideal world,everything should be replaced !

[eob 7]

Trust me, I would've never taken it apart, but the guy welding it insisted it had to be dismantled to fit on their 'CNC Welder'. It's just... I've been around things that go bump in the night since I was born, and a visual inspection tells me that the bearings and oil pump are fine since they were replaced when the engine was refurbed last time, which must've been a very, very short period of time.

 

It needs welding, and the head definitely needs a skim = about 150 of work + new head-gasket and bolts + HT leads + ECU already = about 300-400 of work. Not bad, but, and it's a big but. An Mi16 [over here] with good compression is worth about 500, max.

 

My question isn't really one of whether or not refurbing an engine is worth it or not [it is] my question is just one of economics. 205's look hella uncool [just noticed this when my Dad drove off in my one], they're very brittle compared to Mk2 Golfs, can be stubborn little bast@rds to work on, they very rattly and uncompromised, but all of these minus points are offset by the fact that...

 

1. Does any car make you smile more behind the wheel?

2. Fire up this forum and you can fix them for pennies with new/used parts.

 

Are 205's really worth it if you start throwing the price of several 306 GTi6's or 406 Coupe money at 'em? Just a question?

[newdean0 0]

It sounds like your doing exactly the same as Iam. I've dismantled my head and decoked it, I'm just re-lapping the valves, replacing the stem seals and putting it back together. It's done around 90K but the exhaust valve seats took quite a bit of lapping before I had a proper sealing surface all the way round so I hope I am making some difference for when I put it all back together .

[eob 7]

I'm going to have to reassemble the block myself [£10 says I screw it up and the engine lunches itself within 10,000 miles ] so I intend spending a few quid refacing the head etc. Should be fun.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Surely someone in Ireland does headjobs?

 

 

I cleaned mine up by hand, it was seriously caked in old cruddy oil, looked like it had never had an oil change in its 110,000 miles. I used thinners and a brush, probably not the best thing to use but it did seem to shift most of it. About 80,000 miles later the head still looks the same as it did when I cleaned it, if not cleaner due to (very) regular oil changes. The inside walls of the block were the same condition (sludgy oil), I didn't really clean this up but when I had the sump off a year or so ago it was cleaner than when I put the engine in originally, again due to regular oil changes I think.

[eob 7]

I bought one of those cheapo Dremmel type things from Aldi not so long ago [the expensive 'Power Craft' brand, nothing but the best for my car ] so I intend using that 10,000rpm tool of doom to polish up those hard to reach areas. The guy who's fixing the engine is monumentally slow and in the meantime... wuhahahaha... I've found a cheap-ish Mi16 309 rally car in need of a good home.

 

Temptation, temptation

[boombang 2]

If you buy the Gti-6 engine, haven't you then got the issues of loom + management (which likes to lock apparently).

[alex205mi16 1]

if you buy a gti6 you will be in the same dilema... you will change the cambelt and maybe tensioners as a precation and the lost will go on in the same downward spiral with increaseing costs.

 

i suppose it depends if you want the job done properly and it will last, or do a few things and fingers crossed something wont let go.

 

i appreciate its easy for me to say as its not my cash i`m handing over, but it all depends on what you want to use the car for and how long you think you are keeping it.

[pug_life 0]

exactly what i was going to say

buy any engine and it could go bang 1000miles down the road... theres no rule in mechanics that guarentees it won't go bang cos you've replaced everything.

 

I'm doing an mi16 rebuild at the moment and i know the mileage etc etc.. until you strip it down to a box of parts you won't know where its weak etc.

I just got the head back from skimming and cleaning.. £20 in total.

the crank is actually cleaner than i thought and didn't require a grind.

 

If i was to pay someone else to do a rebuild i'd budget minimum of £1000 and expect the worst ammount of parts to need replacing..

 

i wouldn't bin anything as its salvageable most likely