No Spark! What Havent I Checked...

[Guest mrjbgti]

This is my first post for quite some time sadly its not a positive one. I had left my 205 mi tucked in the garage for the last year. When I last went to use it the starter had packed up. I have now changed the starter and the engine turns over nicely but I dont have a spark at all. I now cant think what else I need to check

 

I suspected the coil at first so have replaced that with a new one. Im not getting any spark from the ht tension side of the coil.

 

So not in any particular order these are the things I have checked and found.

 

There is continuity between the ecu and pins 5 and 6 on the ignition amp.

There is continuity between pin1 on the amp and pin 2 on the coil.

Pin 2 on the amp is earthed.

Pin3 on the coil has 12v going to it.

There is continuity in the ht lead coming from the coil

There is power getting to the ecu.

 

What else can I check anybody got any ideas. Like I mentioned earlier the car ran fine before I changed the starter motor.

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Check all your connections first before you start replacing things.

Chances are something has come unplugged.

Trace your steps and think what you've disturbed.

Mine did this once after working on. spent hours finding what was wrong. It turned out that the ignition amp had come half unplugged.

[Guest mrjbgti]

Check all your connections first before you start replacing things.

Chances are something has come unplugged.

Trace your steps and think what you've disturbed.

Mine did this once after working on. spent hours finding what was wrong. It turned out that the ignition amp had come half unplugged.

Ive spent countless hours checking connections and making sure there not damp and corroded so im a bit baffled now!

[simonb 0]

Are you sure that the battery is not flat? does the engine turn over freely on the starter?

[Guest mrjbgti]

Are you sure that the battery is not flat? does the engine turn over freely on the starter?

Yep i bought a new battery a week a go to go with the swopped starter motor it turns over fine not labouring at all. I wondered if the battery i bought was too small but it was exactly the same power as i was ruuning before, although it physical size is smaller.

Edited March 20, 2006 by mrjbgti

[Lucky Gti 0]

Hiya. Had thsi problem with my 1.6, after it had been sat for about a year! I replaced lots, but eventually tied my problem down to the ignition module. Admitedly, i didn't test the problem as much as you, just worked my way through!! New, 7 pin was about 25 quid for GSF.

[Guest mrjbgti]

Hiya. Had thsi problem with my 1.6, after it had been sat for about a year! I replaced lots, but eventually tied my problem down to the ignition module. Admitedly, i didn't test the problem as much as you, just worked my way through!! New, 7 pin was about 25 quid for GSF.

 

I forgot to mention above that i have tried two seperate ignition modules. One from the original 205 and one from the mi16 which i put in it. Their both identical and both seemed fine before tucking the car away. maybe il get a new one just to be sure.

 

Does anyone know if this kind of problem will register a reliable fault code in the ecu as i have access to a motronic code reader

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

You get no spark if the rev gauge is unplugged from the dials.

odd but true!

Have you been messing with the speedo cable lately?

[Guest mrjbgti]

You get no spark if the rev gauge is unplugged from the dials.

odd but true!

Have you been messing with the speedo cable lately?

Nope the speedo cable hasnt been touched. But the speedo and tacho cables are completely seperate.

[Guest mrjbgti]

I seem to remember from past threads that ignition amps cant be tested easily except for replacing. i also seem to remeber there reasonably robust has anyone had two go on them?

[Guest mrjbgti]

Just had a thought ive unplugged my fuel pump relay to stop any fuel from being pumped up thus flooding the engine. Does any one know whether this needs to be plugged in for the ecu to send out a signal to the amp?

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Just had a thought ive unplugged my fuel pump relay to stop any fuel from being pumped up thus flooding the engine. Does any one know whether this needs to be plugged in for the ecu to send out a signal to the amp?

No obvious link that I can see from looking at both the BX & 405 wiring diagrams.

 

Plug it back in & remove the fuse instead & see if that makes it spark.

 

Graham.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

the signal for the spark is driven from the distributor . check the plug going into the distributor (small connector on the front) trace the wire back to the plug and check continuity . these connectors/plug into the dizzy dont like sitting around in the damp too much.

 

Oh and its not too far from where you've been working.

 

edit: ok forget that , i had it in my head we were talking jetronic.

 

with motronic i'de be looking at the crank angle sensor on top of the gearbox and its connector . and the continuity back to the ecu.

[Guest mrjbgti]

the signal for the spark is driven from the distributor . check the plug going into the distributor (small connector on the front) trace the wire back to the plug and check continuity . these connectors/plug into the dizzy dont like sitting around in the damp too much.

 

Oh and its not too far from where you've been working.

 

edit: ok forget that , i had it in my head we were talking jetronic.

 

with motronic i'de be looking at the crank angle sensor on top of the gearbox and its connector . and the continuity back to the ecu.

OK il check the continuity from the crank angle sensor and the ecu. Does any one have the pin layout of the motronic ecu available. Cant seem to find a schematic in the haynes which depicts the inpu on the ecu.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

motronic4.1_pinouts.pdf

motronic_1.3_pinouts.pdf

 

 

 

legend_for_wiring_diagram.doc

 

4.1 is for the earlier 2 row ecu

[Guest mrjbgti]

Cheers Pugnut those might come in mighty handy. Il try and go through everything again this weekend, and check the crank postition sensor. Il report back once iv had a look

[Guest mrjbgti]

Update time....

 

I worked on the 205 yesterday and tried to hook up a code reader. It said the ecu wasnt talking so that was no help. I have a sneaky suspicion that, that was caused by not having the injector relay plugged in (well come back to that in a bit).

 

Any way I plugged the injector relay back in and still nothing. Despondent instead of looking in my Haynes I just glumly sat there staring at a printed out copy of the engine wiring diagram which pugnut posted. It seemed easier to use than flicking through the pages of the Haynes. I then started looking at the wiring between the iginition amp and the coil. I started checking the continuity but instead of blindly doing it I decided to make sure every position on the outputs on the ignition amp matched up with the correct input on the coil. I then realised two of the wires (the signal and the switched live) to the coil were in the wrong position. You might wonder how did it run in the first place then...

Well the coil I bought from german and Swedish had the mirror image of the plug on the mi loom and therefore the plug wouldnt plug in, they gave me the coil from a bx and it had the wrong female socket on it. In a moment of madness I then started taking the spade connectors out if the coil plug on the mi loom thinking id just manually plug the wires into the correct position on the citreon coil. I then reconsidered and thought feck this im taking it back they can give me the correct bloody coil. So after I sorted the wire positions out and plugged the injector relay back in she sparked then ran instantly.

 

 

 

Strangley enough as an expirment I took out the injector relay again just to see wht effect it had and it does stop any spark from being generated.. Oh well another lesson learned.