Springs - How Many Are In Your Engine?

[PumaRacing 1]

Not a trick question but think carefully. How many components which are springs, or act as springs, are in an average engine?

[Mandic 0]

-in cylinder head...depends on design and valves per cylinder

-water thermostat

-in the clucth (clucth cover??? and clutch itself)

-piston rings

-oil pump spring

-engine mounts (act like spring/damper)

-throttle body & throttle linkage

-bolts have them between exhaust and exhaust mani

-AFM

-do actuators and bimetals count?

-injectors

-fuel pressure regulator

-pulleys (some have them, if the tension on cam belt is too great thy absorb the energy)

-belt tensioners

-oil press sensor

Edited February 18, 2006 by Mandic

[Rippthrough 98]

All of it.

[Mandic 0]

Well if You take the whole engine as one big spring (which takes outside energy to compress and then releases that energy on its own) then yes, but then one could say all of the components are just part of this "spring"

 

Or what did You mean by "all of it", cos surely, lets say inlet mani is not a spring by itself? Or is it?

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[TEKNOPUG 3]

One.

 

One big one that I use a key to wind up before I set off.

[jonD6B 0]

The definition of "Spring" is vast but mainly equates an act of rapid movement from a point of tension which basically means that anything which is driven in any direction from a certain point without a continuous positive drive is technically a "Spring". It's heading towards the realms of Quantum physics and way to technical for me but I would imagine that you could arguably say that there are hundreds of motions within the engine that could be classed as springs?

[jshep205gti 3]

I'e given it some thought and I reckon 73.

[M3Evo 0]

How about the little spring things in the oil seals?

 

Bearing preload springs that seem to live in some water pumps.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

The hydrolic lifters on Mi engines contain small springs as well

[Mandic 0]

-oil jets

[PumaRacing 1]

Some ingenious answers but what I was actually trying to focus the collective mind on is fasteners. All bolts and studs act as very stiff springs. It's the stretch that takes place in them when you tighten them that stops them undoing and provides the clamping force that keeps the two components together.

[M3Evo 0]

Non-return valve in oil filter.

[Rippthrough 98]

All of it acts as a very stiff spring

It'd crack if not.

[Beastie 1]

All of it acts as a very stiff spring

It'd crack if not.

 

I agree - I can't think of a single component in an engine which isn't capable of deforming within an elastic limit when subjected to strain, and then returning to it's original state when the strain is removed. That counts for the number of components which "are a spring" in the original question. The number of components which "act as springs" are any components which are subjected to sufficient strain to cause any degree of deformation during normal service. Which is probably all of them too.

 

Good question in the first place though - fasteners must be amongst the most significant springs. At one time text books often used to illustrate this fact with photgraphs of big end caps which had been hammering their butt faces under extreme rpm - related loading when the bolts had been stretching. I simply don't see that sort of thing anymore in my end of the trade, partly because fewer vintage and classics are given a good thrashing. And partly also because the ones that do often have been fitted with uprated rods and bolts In the 1930s both Rolls Royce and Gardner attempted to wean mechanics off the use of torque wrenches completely in favour of tightening fasteners to a factory specified stretch.

[hengti 2]

42?

[Paintguy 0]

All bolts and studs act as very stiff springs. It's the stretch that takes place in them when you tighten them that stops them undoing

Just to be awkward, I'm going to argue that that isn't the full story.

 

It's actually the friction imposed by that stretching, on the mating surfaces (threads) between those bolts and studs, that stops them undoing.

Edited February 20, 2006 by Paintguy

[jonD6B 0]

Just to be awkward, I'm going to argue that that isn't the full story.

 

It's actually the friction imposed by that stretching, on the mating surfaces (threads) between those bolts and studs, that stops them undoing.

 

 

That arguement could be taken further by saying that it depends on the type of bolt used and the material that is made from. In actual fact, both friction and positive restraining forces are used. The friction is obviously from the mating surfaces and given co-efficient figure and the positive force from the tension through the vertical axis of the bolt through it's elasticity. Even if the threads had a glass finish there is still a small positive force involved.

Edited February 20, 2006 by jonD6B

[Rippthrough 98]

That arguement could be taken further by saying that it depends on the type of bolt used and the material that is made from. In actual fact, both friction and positive restraining forces are used. The friction is obviously from the mating surfaces and given co-efficient figure and the positive force from the tension through the vertical axis of the bolt through it's elasticity. Even if the threads had a glass finish there is still a small positive force involved.

 

Glass certainly isn't frictionless!

 

Edit:- what do we win?

Edited February 20, 2006 by Rippthrough

[Guest rick03054]

Edit:- what do we win?

 

Some old springs from daves bin

[Rippthrough 98]

Some old springs from daves bin

 

 

I reckon big valves would have a bit of spring in them.

[M3Evo 0]

ooh ooh ooh!

 

Does the compressed air in a cylinder count as a spring?

[Rippthrough 98]

ooh ooh ooh!

 

Does the compressed air in a cylinder count as a spring?

 

 

Yep, so does the air in the inlet & exhaust. All of it! Everything! Even the oil.

[Beastie 1]

Just to be awkward, I'm going to argue that that isn't the full story.

 

It's actually the friction imposed by that stretching, on the mating surfaces (threads) between those bolts and studs, that stops them undoing.

 

And to be even more awkward I'll argue that it's all that needs to be said: Because the friction is directly caused by the tension in the fastner then the root cause of the fastener's security is the tension. The friction is a secondary product and is implicit in it's description

 

Can I have my degree in bulls*it yet please

[maturin23 10]

No - I'm afraid we'll have to fail you on incorrect use of an apostrophe.

[jonD6B 0]

Glass certainly isn't frictionless!

 

Edit:- what do we win?

 

 

Absolutely correct. A poor choice of words on my part but if I had said a "Teflon" finish people may have wondered what relevance saucepans were! In actual fact iirc glass has a higher co-efficient than mild steel at around 0.95 compared to 0.74 of the steel.( I think).