Emerald - Running Base Map And Altering Settings

[Dream Weaver 2]

One for all the Emerald users out there

 

Had a bit of a problem today - my problem

 

The car is finished and ready for its MOT tomorrow, but I haven't been able to get it idling that well so far. I had the BX16v plus TB (Pete Sparrow) map installed and managed to get it fired up last week. The idle was ropey, but it revved freely enough.

 

I then altered the injector scaling as I have Saab Red's fitted at 359cc/min but it wouldn't run at all then, just coughing into a stall.

 

So I reverted back, but since then it hasn't idled well at all, and now as per the above thread it wont start any more. It needs mapping, but obviously I need an MOT first, and for now i've re-programed the ECU with the std Mi16 map to try that in the morning.

 

So, some questions:

 

1. Which base map did you use, and how did it run at first?

2. How can I alter settings for the MOT to reduce emissions, change the idle RPM etc?

3. Which tabs in the software should I concentrate on to get it running right?

 

Slightly worried at the moment due to the none starting issue, hoping its just flooded, but may have done some damage to it

 

What damage can be done if the map is way out? Obviously, the physical component timing cant be changed, but if fuelling is way off ignition then surely that could cause det/knock or something just as evil?

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

One for all the Emerald users out there

 

Had a bit of a problem today - my problem

 

The car is finished and ready for its MOT tomorrow, but I haven't been able to get it idling that well so far. I had the BX16v plus TB (Pete Sparrow) map installed and managed to get it fired up last week. The idle was ropey, but it revved freely enough.

 

I then altered the injector scaling as I have Saab Red's fitted at 359cc/min but it wouldn't run at all then, just coughing into a stall.

 

So I reverted back, but since then it hasn't idled well at all, and now as per the above thread it wont start any more. It needs mapping, but obviously I need an MOT first, and for now i've re-programed the ECU with the std Mi16 map to try that in the morning.

 

So, some questions:

 

1. Which base map did you use, and how did it run at first?

2. How can I alter settings for the MOT to reduce emissions, change the idle RPM etc?

3. Which tabs in the software should I concentrate on to get it running right?

 

Slightly worried at the moment due to the none starting issue, hoping its just flooded, but may have done some damage to it

 

What damage can be done if the map is way out? Obviously, the physical component timing cant be changed, but if fuelling is way off ignition then surely that could cause det/knock or something just as evil?

 

Sorry to sound funny but don't you read the manual????

 

To sort out the emisiions for idle have the aptop plugged in...Go to the live screen whcih is F8 either press 3 to increase fuel or 2 to redude fuel. 1 is for cancel....You can do this on the fly and just hit enter to save the trimmed value...

[Dream Weaver 2]

I've read the manual, and DW's book on the subject, thanks Rob

 

But its all mumbo jumbo to me, retarding/advancing, trimming etc etc. I can build things on a car, but it will take me some time to get into this whole mapping business.

 

I read the bit about trimming on live adjustments, so basically it means press they 2 or 3 keys to increase/decrease fuelling?

 

How would I know which way to go with the fuel?

 

I'm looking more for peoples experiences of base maps, and getting up and running before having the ECU properly mapped.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

I've read the manual, and DW's book on the subject, thanks Rob

 

But its all mumbo jumbo to me, retarding/advancing, trimming etc etc. I can build things on a car, but it will take me some time to get into this whole mapping business.

 

I read the bit about trimming on live adjustments, so basically it means press they 2 or 3 keys to increase/decrease fuelling?

 

How would I know which way to go with the fuel?

 

I'm looking more for peoples experiences of base maps, and getting up and running before having the ECU properly mapped.

 

You will know....The idle quality will decrease if you add too much fuel or take out too much fuel...You can hear it from the exhaust note...

 

I would go back to mi injectors and base map it will be a lot closer....Put new plugs or clean the old ones...

 

Also I know from my set up and teh same will apply to yours starting the car too often and not doing lolng journeys the plugs too foul up a lot more...There's no IACV and the mixture is much richer...Had this problem with a garage running the car back and forth through the workshops and the car refused to start as the plugs were fouled wit hsoot fro mtoo rich mixture fro mthe numberous cold starts and not allowin to let the car warm up...

Edited January 18, 2006 by Robsbc

[Dream Weaver 2]

Dont the Mi injectors max out at 180bhp though? The engine alone has that power (RR'd), then add the TB's/ECU.

 

Or does it not matter just to get it running and through the MOT?

[16v205 9]

Hi, for the MOT as Rob said above.

 

Use the live adjustment screen to get it to pass, but dont press return. If you leave it on the live adjustment screen whilst altering the fuel the fuel figure will be altering for the whole map. If you press enter then it will be altered for just that single point, not much use when the operator cant keep a steady engine speed.

 

Example is running at load point 1 @ 2500rpm it might say 25 for fuel. If you set it to -5 on the live adjustment it will remove -5 fuel throughout the map no matter what load point it is at. If you press enter at load point 1 @2500rpm then ONLY that load point will alter, the rest of the map will stay unchanged. Goto the fueling maps in the software and you will see a different coloured number. Thats the position you have just altered. For the MOT just reduce/increase the fueling enough in the live adjustment screen so it passes the emissions then unplug the laptop.

 

If youve got an issue with it not wanting to idle, assuming all 4 butterflys are equalish and its not due to too small a throttle butterfly gap, then increase the ignition advance for the first load site. Youll have to alter the butterfly gap in relation to the idle to get a decent tickover.

 

Mapping is awkward at best of times, I really dont believe its possible to get a decent map from just running around the roads altering the ignition & fueling until it 'feels' right.

 

If you want ill send you my emerald map. Its off my mi16 with motorbike throttle bodies on, just pm me your email address.

 

Cheers

Rich

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Dont the Mi injectors max out at 180bhp though? The engine alone has that power (RR'd), then add the TB's/ECU.

 

Or does it not matter just to get it running and through the MOT?

 

It's gonna be a lot closer than what you have now....Don't rev it past lets say 6000rpm and you won't be revving the s*it out of them...

 

For running in I had Mi injectors and wnet for teh fiest few miles up to 3500rpm...The car eventually made 212bhp....So yes it should be ok for MOT and running down gently to the rolling road. Just don't cane it to 7500rpm and use full throttle...

[charlie_sav 0]

Cough wideband kms self mapping cough..

 

sorry could not resist, but it does make life easy,

 

i've had a emerald at it's allways tricky if you have not got a wideband display, it's just all guess work, i was lucky i had a mot bloke that was nice. i never got the idle control to work very well on start up either, what ever rpm's you put as targets it never seem to make a difference, but it might have been me,

Edited January 19, 2006 by charlie_sav

[Craigb 2]

Mine's not an Mi , its an 8V , but the base map was way off , just good enough to get it to the rolling road.

 

Coughing and spluttering everywhere . Once mapped , it idles at 900 rpm even from a cold start with a lumpy cam .

 

I would try and get it on the rollers before the MOT if possible , it will give you a better starting point .

[Dream Weaver 2]

No MOT means no insurance, dont fancy driving 200 miles to Emerald with no tax or MOT, and not really sure if there is any decent mappers round these parts.

 

Need to get it running again first though, the bloody thing wont run any more.

[Craigb 2]

Fair point

 

That's the same issue I had , I wanted to take it to mikeanics in congleton 1.5 hours away

 

But because it wasn't running well enough I took it to Nobles 1 mile away , but had to pay the premium rates .

 

Hope you crack it.

 

Don't know what these guys are like , fairly close to you

 

www.re-performancecentre.co.uk

Edited January 20, 2006 by Craigb

[Dream Weaver 2]

RE are not too good I dont think.

 

Mikeanics are close to me, but there are a few mixed reviews of him on this forum, which worries me.

 

Wayne is over at Chipwizards, also near by but he will want approx £400 for mapping from what i've seen.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

RE are not too good I dont think.

 

Mikeanics are close to me, but there are a few mixed reviews of him on this forum, which worries me.

 

Wayne is over at Chipwizards, also near by but he will want approx £400 for mapping from what i've seen.

 

SBc are near and have experience of doing mapping on my Emerald

[Dream Weaver 2]

Need to get it running again first, but may try SBC.

 

Any ideas how I can get it running again, it wont start at all now? Plugs are black and fouled, so it may be worth me replacing them.

 

I will check spark/fuel/compression on Sunday, but after that and plugs it may need a new coilpack.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Need to get it running again first, but may try SBC.

 

Any ideas how I can get it running again, it wont start at all now? Plugs are black and fouled, so it may be worth me replacing them.

 

I will check spark/fuel/compression on Sunday, but after that and plugs it may need a new coilpack.

 

Plugs are fouled again? That;s not good

[Dream Weaver 2]

No I mean they were black and fouled from the offset of the starting problems.

 

I tried to clean them but they are still black. The carbon is gone, but they still remain black in colour so they may be buggered.

 

They have been sat in the engine for over 12 months.

[TT205 42]

and not really sure if there is any decent mappers round these parts.

 

You've got Wayne Scofield in Milnrow - surely thats near enough and surely he's one of the best in the country!

 

Chipwizards - 01706 651000

 

Dave

 

PS Fit a new set and take a spare set of plugs with you if it's running rich - I drove mine coughing and spluttering onto Wayne's dyno and then same as you - it refused to start again just when we were about to map it !

 

At least you are near - you could also leave it over night so he can do a decent cold start map the next morning (from cold)

Edited January 20, 2006 by TT205

[Dream Weaver 2]

What does Wayne charge though?

 

I'm sure pugtorque had to pay about £350-400 and that was with a map that was close anyway, mine is all over the place.

 

I have some customers in Halifax with a new RR, but not sure what there experience is of Mapping.

[charlie_sav 0]

Wayne posted this the ssc not long back,

 

QUOTE"

However, in recent times I seem to be spending much of the time 'slot' allocated for a particular job putting things right that should really have been done before the car arrived for mapping. Oil leaks, water leaks, wiring problems, fixing exhausts, setting tappets etc. etc. It makes no sense booking the best dyno time available for it to wasted fixing things that should have been done already. I don't enjoy having to fix stuff either. I enjoy doing what I do best- mapping ECUs- and, if having to fix silly problems means I don't get home for my tea until eleven at night, it just sucks all the enjoyment right out of doing the job......

 

I book two 'slots' in each day, one from 9.30am 'till 1pm, and another slot in the afternoon from 1.30 'till 5pm. Three and a half hours is enough time to do most jobs - as long as there are no problems. Each 'slot' costs £450 +vat. If I have to run over the three and a half hours I charge £120+vat/hour. I offer a 10% discount for club members too. If a job has to be aborted due to some problem that it's not possible to fix within the time available I still need to charge for the slot booked as otherwise, come the end of the week, overheads would not be met... and I would eventually go bust. This might seem harsh but I have to do it I'm afraid.

 

So, to sum up, PLEASE make sure everything is as it should be BEFORE bringing a car for mapping. You will save yourself a lot of money and trouble, and you will help me to keep a fantasic facility open for you to use in the future should you need to.

 

Cheers All

 

Wayne."

 

So you are talking £528.75 mins a 10% discount if includes the 205 drivers for club rates.

Edited January 20, 2006 by charlie_sav

[Sam 4]

Silly money isn't it really, wish I was on that kind of wages.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Fleck me, i'm not paying that much, this feckin car has sucked enough of my hard earned this past 2 years, I refuse to spend any more huge amounts on it until the summer

 

Emerald's flat £200 + vat makes much more sense, even with the 4 hour round trip and fuel costs!!

 

May seem harsh, but its a bad week, had to pay the flaming Inland Revenue yesterday

[charlie_sav 0]

If i was you i would use mikeanics, i know other people on this fourm have other views but i found him spot on, been going back for years, he's £50 for the first hour then £30 every hour after, you could be at mike's for 14 hours and still be cheaper that chipwizards. though would think it would only take about 4-5 hours max,

Edited January 20, 2006 by charlie_sav

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Fleck me, i'm not paying that much, this feckin car has sucked enough of my hard earned this past 2 years, I refuse to spend any more huge amounts on it until the summer

 

Emerald's flat £200 + vat makes much more sense, even with the 4 hour round trip and fuel costs!!

 

May seem harsh, but its a bad week, had to pay the flaming Inland Revenue yesterday

 

Took Dave W about 2 hrs to do the mapping on my pug...Their price ahs gone up it's 250 plus VAt